Hi this is my first post here so be gentle with me .I have a car I am trying to sell but am confused as to its aprox value .As well as this I am unsure of some other details.The colour I cant find here on this site and seems to be rare, the rear bumper ? and no semaphores it was built between Dec 1969 and Aug 1960 it has its original 1200 engine .
Any help would really be appreciated.
Thanks Graham
[url=https://s291.photobucket.com/albums/ll287/2bgeedub/1960%20bug/]https://s291.photobucket.com/albums/ll287/2bgeedub/1960%20bug/[/url]
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Posted by: Rich Oakley - 20 August 2009 13:16:39
Graham,
Nice to speak to you the other day. Colour is L363 Arctic, 1960 model.
From what you said, the car must have been special order RHD in Germany when new. It would have also been ordered with towel-rail US spec bumpers. From 1959, owners in continental Europe could spec their cars with flashing indicators instead of semaphores- this is what you have here. The car has had a front-ender at some point. The bonnet, wings, front valance and headlamps are incorrect.
As I said on the phone, value is whatever people will pay for it. You have it advertised on VZi at £2500 with no takers. I offered less but you declined my offer so I guess a happy medium would be a price somewhere in-between :d
Good luck with the sale.
Rich.
Posted by: mrsherbie - 24 August 2009 07:48:02
Hello,
A big factor is its level of 'rotfree'ness', mostly heater channels & inner wing condition, I never hold my breath on british cars and like to be surprised IF they turn out to be good as its not the norm.
VZI is not an accurate measure of the market, there are far too many people on there who want something for nothing.
The car has some great factors,
1. the original numberplate ( v nice)
2. the colour IS rare and unusual, and very desirable for me as it is a rarely seen colour. BBT4VW had an og paint one in the collection, maybe still do but I cant think of any others that spring to mind.
3. RHD
4. age
Its obviously had a wing and some paint but I still think even with no mot its a 2.7-3k car but if you give it a nice clean and polish and get it MOT'd I would put it up for £3.3-3.5k if you are in no mad rush to sell it, or 3k if you want to see it gone quicker.
I disagree 2.5k is too cheap, unless its hiding rusty channels, inner wings and floors or any major rust that will prevent it from getting an mot.
We just sold an og paint but less unusual colour slightly later car LHD for 3.5k that needed only a touch of welding in the rear corners but had no mot.
For free you could list it for sale on this site, and or [url=https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/]car&classic[/url]
Posted by: geedub - 24 August 2009 10:33:21
:d Thanks ever so much fellas for your replys and helpfull comments.The car has now gone to a new owner for 3 k at the weekend.I am glad to tell you that the guy who took it will be restoring it to completely stock, this is just what I wanted and what the cars desrves.
All the best Graham :d
Posted by: geedub - 24 August 2009 10:36:53
whoops I have just realized your user name mrsherbie :oops: and I said thanks fellasin my reply :oops:how refreshing to have a female VW expert
Thanks AGAIN Graham
Posted by: mrsherbie - 24 August 2009 13:45:18
Good result for both the buyer and yourself. The colour, and og plate would have made it the sort of car I would have bought to keep for myself too, so it will be great to see it in the future, especially if it stays stock! :d
Posted by: VW Stan - 24 August 2009 14:50:02
[quote=geedub]:d Thanks ever so much fellas for your replys and helpfull comments.The car has now gone to a new owner for 3 k at the weekend.I am glad to tell you that the guy who took it will be restoring it to completely stock, this is just what I wanted and what the cars desrves.
All the best Graham :d [/quote]
Graham, any chance you can you point the new owner in the direction of pre67vw.co.uk (if they aren't already registered) so they can keep us updated on the restoration?
:d
Posted by: RoRoVw - 24 August 2009 19:20:13
From reading the thread in 'the other place' it seems that the car has been bought by a well known restorer in the north west so I've no doubt it will re-appear in fantastic condition and at a 'trade'price. At least it will remain stock and will be restored to it's former glory. All his restorations are to a high standard.
Posted by: mrsherbie - 24 August 2009 20:00:44
I just deduced the same Rorovw! :d
The car is going to be restored to perfection in his hands! How exciting :d :beer: and what a great turn-up for the car :d
Posted by: VW Stan - 24 August 2009 20:39:15
I read the same just after I posted the above.
I'm sure he'll do a great job!
8)
Posted by: mrsherbie - 25 August 2009 02:53:39
[quote=geedub]whoops I have just realized your user name mrsherbie :oops: and I said thanks fellasin my reply :oops:how refreshing to have a female VW expert
[/quote]
I'm not remotely an expert, more forum busybody :lol:
Posted by: VW Stan - 25 August 2009 09:29:52
[quote=mrsherbie]
I'm not remotely an expert, more forum busybody :lol: [/quote]
Time to change your signature! :wink:
Any news on the wheel?
Posted by: mrsherbie - 25 August 2009 13:43:12
pm'd
Blimey! I figured it out from Restowagen for sale and wanteds, as not many people would bother looking for og wingbeading :beer: But I just read about the car on Volksywhine&moan :shock:
The colour IS mega rare, ( show me another uk Arctic ? before you say it is'nt [-x ) My O sold BBT their Swede. The plate is great and the whole saga just proves how thick that site and most of its users can be.
I LOVE the way the people on there who realised instantly its specialness like the guy who rushed round and paid the deposit but then would'nt up it only slightly/put their money where their mouth is instantly disclaim the cars rarity when they dont get the car [-x Hey, you snooze you lose!
And sometimes magazine editors should know when to keep their arrogant opinions to themselves given all the heavily welded up 'restored' with all repro parts junkers they put on the covers and features :roll: but the fact he rushed out to see it does tell you something :lol:
Rich's comments and some of the others were fair, an average colour un-mot'd but solid repainted 60 bug that needs only a little tidying has a going rate of 2.5k, but he like ourselves do not really [i]need[/i] another 60 bug to want it enough. But this car is certainly worth the extra to anyone who really wants a slightly unusual beetle from the mainstream ruby/pearl/gulf/black etc it is well worth its money as I am sure we both agree.
And the fact it sold within a day or 2 proves it.
A tip, if you REALLY want a car, go there with ALL the money, buy it on the spot and take it away. We take (and stand by) deposits but in general they are worthless for private one off sellers. and you always risk losing the car if someone else comes along and offers more.
Anyway, I am glad. The car found by far the best home going regardless :d
Posted by: Ivan - 25 August 2009 20:07:47
[quote=mrsherbie]pm'd
I LOVE the way the people on there who realised instantly its specialness like the guy who rushed round and paid the deposit but then would'nt up it only slightly/put their money where their mouth is instantly disclaim the cars rarity when they dont get the car [-x Hey, you snooze you lose!
And sometimes magazine editors should know when to keep their arrogant opinions to themselves given all the heavily welded up 'restored' with all repro parts junkers they put on the covers and features :roll: but the fact he rushed out to see it does tell you something :lol:
[/quote]
What is it with you Anna?
Where does the finger pointing stem from?
YOU!
The only reason I happened to be viewing that car is James Peene is currently looking for a Beetle.
He lives about 12 miles from me and to save him some money and to do our little bit to help the environment (or so we kid ourselves) I give him a lift into the office every day - so when I saw an advert for this car (James was off that day) I forwarded the link to James as I thought it might fit the bill.
He liked the look of the car and arranged to see it that evening - weirdly - rather than some kind of conspiracy theory - the only reason he went that evening was that the car was about 3 miles from our office.
I WAS ONLY THERE BECAUSE JAMES WAS GOING TO SEE THE CAR I AND I HAD TO TAKE HIM HOME!
I was simply doing a colleague a favour.
Anyway, James had £2500 to spend. The car 'was' £2500.
On inspection; the bonnet, front wings, passenger door, decklid, front valance, spare wheel well, rear inner wings above the torsion bars points all needed replacement or welding. The carpets and headliner were hammered. The front bump stops had disintergrated. The engine was 'unknown'as was the rest of the running gear.
It needed a lot of work.
James offered £2500 for it - Graham said he wanted more. As forum 'experts' have gone into advisory-mode
I told Graham, I saw it at £2500 (But not of my money as I wasn't interested - I hadn't gone there as a prospective buyer). I told him if it was mine and someone offered me £3000 I'd rip there arm off!
That was my opinion on a car I'd seen up close.
YOU kindly put down prices for the car and that was your opinion. the difference? You'd never seen yourself.
And I am out of order?
Well sorry - but to suggest I have an arrogant opinion, or that this car was the find of the century, or that the cars we feature on the cover of the magazine have any bearing on this thread is absolute codswallop.
You should feel ashamed of yourself, you're putting down the hard work of people who have very enthusiastic about their hobby - the hobby you suggest you share.
I am sure that the world would be a brilliant place if no one had to fit a single repro part on their car. And I will be very amused if you eat your own words and fit a repro part to your own car.
Equally, let's see if Steve - who bought this car over the phone after a 25 minute conversation/description from me ever fits a repro part to it - I hope he doesn't otherwise he'll have fallen out with you in the process!
You might want to ask Steve if the advice I gave him on the car was honest and if he's got any problem with me - or in the same breath whether the seller Graham has? I do not think you will find either have.
Equally - bear this in mind - this 1960 will have welding, it will need a lot of parts and the paint it grim.
The colour is unusual - but not unheard of. We've had one on the cover of VolksWorld - and guess what? It hadn't been welded!
It's ended up with the right person - as he'll restore it. Graham sniffed it out and was always going to use it simply to raise a profit - he was honest about that and there's nowt wrong with it.
Posted by: 69project - 02 September 2009 19:37:26
at least its gone to a good home,i offerd a swop for my bcup car but money is king for most things at the mo!
Posted by: pre67vw - 02 September 2009 22:11:29
[quote=mrsherbie]
VZI is not an accurate measure of the market, there are far too many people on there who want something for nothing.
[/quote]
Hey, that describes me pretty well too :twisted:
£3k? :shock: I must be missing something
Posted by: Mr Carlos - 02 September 2009 22:49:23
wow, all this banter over a little arctic '60. I have one myself - have had for 10 years in 2 weeks :o arctic/arctis colour RHD and with a lovely og Hills plate. She's beautiful but would never have thought such a car could create such strong comments. You all obviously know each other quite well so I probably shouldn't be typing here but just loved to see another RHD arctic '60
[IMG]https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/cactuswheel/DSC00189.jpg[/IMG] paint is a bit faded these days..
[IMG]https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/cactuswheel/DSC00186.jpg[/IMG]
Posted by: Rich Oakley - 02 September 2009 23:58:02
I broke an Arctic RHD '60 in the late 90's. I may still have the original wing beading somewhere.
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 03 September 2009 09:11:55
[quote=Rich Oakley]I broke an Arctic RHD '60 in the late 90's. I may still have the original wing beading somewhere.[/quote]
I bet that was my Uncles '60 you bugger Richard...didn't get it from a farmyard up near Gatwick Airport did you?
I'll dig out some pictures later today...Dave Cantle and I went to see it but it was too far gone for a resto.:(
Posted by: Rich Oakley - 03 September 2009 09:55:44
[quote=lifeintheslowlane]
I bet that was my Uncles '60 you bugger Richard...didn't get it from a farmyard up near Gatwick Airport did you?
I'll dig out some pictures later today...Dave Cantle and I went to see it but it was too far gone for a resto.:( [/quote]
John,
It may well have been. I didn't take any pics, but I bought it from somebody who'd purchased it to restore, but it was really bad and only good for breaking.
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 03 September 2009 10:13:25
OK here it is. This was my Uncle Lew's '59 Actic White '59...'60 model, registration 115 AHO.
I had fond memories of this car...in fact it was the motivating force in my belated aircooled VW interest. We used to cruise the prom at Bournemouth in it in the mid to late '60s.
My Uncle died in 1980 and all was forgotten about the car until 1996 when I was looking for a Beetle to restore or at least to buy one as I now had the time to devote to the hobby...only water cooled VWs 'till then. In a conversation with a cousin I learnt that my Uncle's '59 was still in the family and apparently “in the back of a barn” near Gatwick Airport for the previous 6 years.
They made it sound like a good candidate for my first resto so I asked Dave Cantle if he’d come with me to give it the “once-over.” When we got to the farm we were taken to the barn but instead of it being “in the back of a barn” it was round the back of a barn…in long grass, open to the elements for the previous 6 years. One of the windows had been left ajar so not only was the exterior shot so was the interior.
It was very sad…the car had sentimental value for me but it was obvious it was just too big a project for an introduction to the aircooled hobby.
Anyway here are the pictures:
[img]https://vwjudsonregister.tripod.com/IMAGES/96-lews-59-1.jpg[/img]
[img]https://vwjudsonregister.tripod.com/IMAGES/96-lews-59-2.jpg[/img]
[img]https://vwjudsonregister.tripod.com/IMAGES/96-lews-59-3.jpg[/img]
[img]https://vwjudsonregister.tripod.com/IMAGES/96-lews-59-4.jpg[/img]
[img]https://vwjudsonregister.tripod.com/IMAGES/96-lews-59-5.jpg[/img]
[img]https://vwjudsonregister.tripod.com/IMAGES/96-lews-59-6.jpg[/img]
On the way home Dave told me about another ’59 in the Hants Club and it had a Judson Supercharger! A WHAT? I bought that one instead.:roll:
Posted by: mrsherbie - 03 September 2009 11:16:40
[quote=Ivan]
You should feel ashamed of yourself
[/quote]
No I should'nt, but you should. :roll:
Steve posted that he had bought the car, end of.
YOU were out of line by then going back and picking bones about it on a public forum. I think a magazine editor should simply know when he is stepping (albeit slightly) over the line thats all. Its simply a lack of common courtesy to the new owner.
And I am not stupid enough to know that there have never been any other arctics, I just pointed out that there is a little extra value in that colourscheme as well you also know and that as such it cannot be valued the same as say a re-reg'd black 60 and the cute plate added to the package a little more too. I never gave a price to anyone just that I would value it slightly higher than most other 60's in principle.
Obviously according to you and the seller some other people felt the same way as I do.
Yes, there are always a couple of nice og paint cars that come up for sale each year for less than you would spend restoring others like this one, but once you filter out cars with og plates AND an interesting colour, they dwindle right down to maybe 1 or 2.
You know that a car does'nt have to have og paint to still have the X factor. I am not going to argue with people who would rather play denial though. I am too busy.
Posted by: Rich Oakley - 03 September 2009 14:28:49
John,
That's not the car I broke.
Rich.
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 03 September 2009 14:35:45
Well Dave and I did think about parting it out ourselves but unless you have the storage space to do the job properly I could see it getting in the way for a long time.
It was sad but the car was rusted through in just about every panel underneath as well as what you could see on top.:(
Posted by: beetleseb - 07 September 2009 00:13:00
[quote=Mr Carlos]wow, all this banter over a little arctic '60. I have one myself - have had for 10 years in 2 weeks :o arctic/arctis colour RHD and with a lovely og Hills plate. She's beautiful but would never have thought such a car could create such strong comments. You all obviously know each other quite well so I probably shouldn't be typing here but just loved to see another RHD arctic '60
[IMG]https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/cactuswheel/DSC00189.jpg[/IMG] paint is a bit faded these days..
[IMG]https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/cactuswheel/DSC00186.jpg[/IMG]
[/quote]
I Know this car well and would happily take it over an oval any day, truly amazing that its suvived so well, this is one of my fav. bugs ever
They have a amazingly nice bay too, some people get all the luck.
Seb
Posted by: fergusmalhoon - 01 October 2009 13:48:24
Mike Pye has an interesting article in the back of this months volksworld given the previous posts on this topic about valuations etc
Posted by: geedub - 24 October 2009 09:19:07
What is it with the UK VW forums
I know its been a while since this all took place and I was not even going to bother responding but I thought I owed it to Ivan to. I appreciate all the helpful info that I was given by most of the postings so thanks again. However I have been put off of contributing or posting on VW forums yet again by what happend .I would just like to say this.
I have been a keen VW fan since I got hold of Volksworld issue 1 back in the eighties and have been a distant admirer of the scene on and off since then.I kick started my love of VW's again when about five years ago I picked up another copy of volksworld and decided the time had come to build a nice bug. All this has been done spending probably thousand of hours researching on the web as a quiet admirer and mainly on a US site namely Germanlook.com. All the info was great but I never posted much as I didn't want to embarrass myself with my lack of knowledge.However my ameture postings where all received kindly and all the members seemed helpful and friendly.Then I discovered VZI I spent ages again before plucking up the courage to post and placed an add, straight away some twat slags it off as I hadn't gone about it in the correct way.I then posted another add with some more bitchy comments so I just thought wtf.I then discovered pre 67 that seemed to have a more mature knowledgeable group for people but yet again I get people digging other members out and jumping to conclusions about business that has got f all to do with them.For the record it was both a surprise and an pleasure to see Ivan round my place as although I don't know him I have a lot of repsect for him .I told the guy who came with him the that I had not made up my mind on the final price as I was not sure of its value.As Ivan said if someone offered 3k for it then bight their arm off for it.I was offered 3 k for it so that was what I went with. His friend did not put a deposit on the car. I texed him twice and told him the situation and he didn't even have the courtesy to respond.I know this is all pretty trivial but It just puts me off getting involved on these sites. Why are there so many nosey, miserable, bitching and bickering f kers on here. [quote=Ivan] :(
What is it with you Anna?
Where does the finger pointing stem from?
YOU!
The only reason I happened to be viewing that car is James Peene is currently looking for a Beetle.
He lives about 12 miles from me and to save him some money and to do our little bit to help the environment (or so we kid ourselves) I give him a lift into the office every day - so when I saw an advert for this car (James was off that day) I forwarded the link to James as I thought it might fit the bill.
He liked the look of the car and arranged to see it that evening - weirdly - rather than some kind of conspiracy theory - the only reason he went that evening was that the car was about 3 miles from our office.
I WAS ONLY THERE BECAUSE JAMES WAS GOING TO SEE THE CAR I AND I HAD TO TAKE HIM HOME!
I was simply doing a colleague a favour.
Anyway, James had £2500 to spend. The car 'was' £2500.
On inspection; the bonnet, front wings, passenger door, decklid, front valance, spare wheel well, rear inner wings above the torsion bars points all needed replacement or welding. The carpets and headliner were hammered. The front bump stops had disintergrated. The engine was 'unknown'as was the rest of the running gear.
It needed a lot of work.
James offered £2500 for it - Graham said he wanted more. As forum 'experts' have gone into advisory-mode
I told Graham, I saw it at £2500 (But not of my money as I wasn't interested - I hadn't gone there as a prospective buyer). I told him if it was mine and someone offered me £3000 I'd rip there arm off!
That was my opinion on a car I'd seen up close.
YOU kindly put down prices for the car and that was your opinion. the difference? You'd never seen yourself.
And I am out of order?
Well sorry - but to suggest I have an arrogant opinion, or that this car was the find of the century, or that the cars we feature on the cover of the magazine have any bearing on this thread is absolute codswallop.
You should feel ashamed of yourself, you're putting down the hard work of people who have very enthusiastic about their hobby - the hobby you suggest you share.
I am sure that the world would be a brilliant place if no one had to fit a single repro part on their car. And I will be very amused if you eat your own words and fit a repro part to your own car.
Equally, let's see if Steve - who bought this car over the phone after a 25 minute conversation/description from me ever fits a repro part to it - I hope he doesn't otherwise he'll have fallen out with you in the process!
You might want to ask Steve if the advice I gave him on the car was honest and if he's got any problem with me - or in the same breath whether the seller Graham has? I do not think you will find either have.
Equally - bear this in mind - this 1960 will have welding, it will need a lot of parts and the paint it grim.
The colour is unusual - but not unheard of. We've had one on the cover of VolksWorld - and guess what? It hadn't been welded!
It's ended up with the right person - as he'll restore it. Graham sniffed it out and was always going to use it simply to raise a profit - he was honest about that and there's nowt wrong with it.
[/quote]
Posted by: pre67vw - 24 October 2009 15:13:50
Welcome to the forum!
[quote=geedub]
Why are there so many nosey, miserable, bitching and bickering f kers on here. [/quote]
Because that's pretty much what an internet forum is :lol: (not just VW forums, but ALL forums)
Posted by: GKL 7 - 24 October 2009 16:15:10
geedub,i can give you site addresses where they will rip you apart first and ask questions later.
This is a very friendly site and very very little of this happens here.What can be misunderstood as bitchyness is usually two friends taking the p**s.
However i can see where you are coming from on this occassion,but as i know and like both parties involved,i will not express my opinion here.
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 24 October 2009 19:50:45
[quote=geedub]What is it with the UK VW forums
...Why are there so many nosey, miserable, bitching and bickering f kers on here. [/quote]
I'm sorry "geedub" but I have to agree with Rob and "50 Karmann", in general terms it's the way of Internet forums because they are to some, places to vent their day to day frustrations without having to face the people they're attacking.
There is much less of this on Pre 67VW than virtually any other UK based VW forum. From my experience it's tightly moderated and that's where other forums fall down.
Moderation doesn't mean removing disagreements or contentious points, there's room for both in an adult discussion. Having said that some are better than others in making their points in a diplomatic fashion...some just come out with it and call it as they see it.
There's more good hearted banter on this site than any other I've seen. The incident you make comment on is very much the exception than the rule.
Posted by: geedub - 27 October 2009 06:10:54
Ok thanks for your reassurance In pre 67 I will give it some more thought thought when and if I decide to post again. I just think its a shame that whenever you get a scene/club of any description you always get members who think they are above everyone else and know everything.It just puts the likes of me and other people wanting to get involved off. Its unfriendly and unhealthy for the scene.I will leave it at that.
