Posted by: Last Triumph - 15 April 2010 22:17:06
After a two year search, and after almost giving up, I finally found what I was looking for - an rot free, unwelded, 100% original, matching numbers, un-molestered, original paint & interior, surviving, virgin oval. Many said it couldn't be done, but I never lost hope, and I'm finally very proud to share with you my Oval. I'll let the pics do the talking, but add that it is a 1 previous family owner, 36,000 mile example with all the original dated service tags hanging from the bonnet release pull. Enjoy. As it was found.... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/012.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/013.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/014.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/4470907686_2a98641c47.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/4470915176_62a54b8ac9.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/4470916564_3e5f4e748e.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/4470909022_6ea16db76c.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/4471007572_d16523e2b0.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/4471014886_92faae556c.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/jack.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: Last Triumph - 15 April 2010 22:19:19
[IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/tools.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/engine1.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/engine2.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/4470246017_0c50de49d0.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/seatlabel.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/headliner.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/4470148051_a839512454.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/4470139161_a1d0d3f165.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/4470151341_1fdf2a1dcf.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/4470232647_ac17055922.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: Last Triumph - 15 April 2010 22:21:04
[IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/4470431083_41feaf3215.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/4471209562_88b3611148.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/4470247243_f72ed7eca1.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/4470932400_0ea6d62779.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/4471005124_e0183afdb1.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/bottomplate.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/engine1.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/bulkhead1.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/frontinner2.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/underseat.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: Last Triumph - 15 April 2010 22:22:27
[IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/4470132573_7a589195d0.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/017.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/022.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02844Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02842Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/030Medium.jpg[/IMG] Home at last! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/0332Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/0322Medium.jpg[/IMG] The money shot! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02845Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02846Medium.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: 64rotbox - 15 April 2010 22:48:43
So, a happy ending then. Quite a difference to all the rusty and lowered crap you see advertised on certain websites etc. for daft money. Did you get it through a wanted advert in the end?

Posted by: cupa65 - 15 April 2010 22:53:21
Hi Fantastic find!! Please just wash it, spray some protective wax on the surface rust and drive it. Originality cannot be replicated! Happy motoring

Posted by: 2splits - 15 April 2010 23:04:00
That gives me a serious chubbie. What is under the other tarps? :)

Posted by: Last Triumph - 15 April 2010 23:05:10
[quote=64rotbox]So, a happy ending then. Quite a difference to all the rusty and lowered crap you see advertised on certain websites etc. for daft money. Did you get it through a wanted advert in the end?[/quote] Pretty much. The owner came accross a discussion I was having and contacted me. It went from there... Right place, right time, right car, very lucky. [quote=cupa65]Hi Fantastic find!! Please just wash it, spray some protective wax on the surface rust and drive it. Originality cannot be replicated! Happy motoring[/quote] Pretty much what I intended. I need to investigate the best method of doing so and the right products to use. Cheers!

Posted by: GKL 7 - 15 April 2010 23:14:33
I can see it's an ex portugal car. But please tell me you didn't find it on the Wirral,i lived there for 32 years,not a sniff:cry: Where abouts are you i'm just over the river on the welsh side.

Posted by: heb623 - 15 April 2010 23:34:30
[quote='50 Karmann] But please tell me you didn't find it on the Wirral,i lived there for 32 years,not a sniff:cry: [/quote] George you are no good dog nomore!!!:lol: Btw before you go to speak a lawyer all I mean to say is that you have a bad nose!:roll: :twisted: ET

Posted by: Last Triumph - 16 April 2010 00:22:54
[quote='50 Karmann]I can see it's an ex portugal car. But please tell me you didn't find it on the Wirral,i lived there for 32 years,not a sniff:cry: Where abouts are you i'm just over the river on the welsh side.[/quote] Hi, don't worry - you didn't miss it - I had a 12 hour day to go and collect it - local was the one it wasn't!

Posted by: 55Kab - 16 April 2010 08:40:33
Absolutely fantastic find. As said above...just wash it, valet the interior, service it and drive!

Posted by: paulbugman - 16 April 2010 18:05:58
great find and lovely to see a original car . so now lowered it and put fuch`s on it and joke only kidding keep it original as a beautiful find :d

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 16 April 2010 18:33:11
Congratulations ,that really is a dream find.Are you planning on driving it this year?

Posted by: Last Triumph - 16 April 2010 21:36:21
[quote=Sunroof53]Congratulations ,that really is a dream find.Are you planning on driving it this year?[/quote] The plan initially is to get it running, then do the various re-commissioning jobs, then get it MOT'd and registered and go from there. I would be disappointed if that didn't happen this summer, time off work permitting. It will be kept totally stock and original. This one's a keeper.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 16 April 2010 22:54:54
Keep us posted and if you do make it to a show this year i would really like to see it .I can only think of a few cars with this kind of originality .Perhaps we should start a new thread for original paint /interior cars,although i dont think it would be more than a few pages unfortunatley .Here is one of my favourites from last years Stanford hall .I think a similar colour:? as yours but either a post December 53 or early 54.What is the gauge on your dash?Ammeter? [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/DSC06182.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: pp - 16 April 2010 23:26:32
:shock: What a great find !! Congratulations (and thanks for sharing the images) This is a similar story to that of the oldest Volkswagen here in Belgium, JM's 1948. That car was also found in a barn, is still in first paint and bone original, with loads of patina. Until today, this car has never been restored, just brought back to life and then carefully preserved by its owner. Patina cars, they are so cool 8) Regards, Paul

Posted by: 69project - 17 April 2010 09:27:36
wow,nice find! very similar to my split that im bringing back to life at the moment good luck

Posted by: 69project - 17 April 2010 09:28:16
wow,nice find! very similar to my split that im bringing back to life at the moment good luck

Posted by: GKL 7 - 17 April 2010 12:32:26
[quote=69project] very similar to my split [/quote] Is that the one with the new beam[-x :wink:

Posted by: 69project - 17 April 2010 15:30:30
[quote='50 Karmann] Is that the one with the new beam[-x :wink: [/quote] you will only notice the nice shiney new horn grilles :wink:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 17 April 2010 21:42:43
[quote=Sunroof53] What is the gauge on your dash?Ammeter? [/quote] Luckily it's not a guage, it's a magnetic St Christopher, so no holes in the dash! :)

Posted by: Caledfryn - 17 April 2010 23:46:53

Posted by: GKL 7 - 18 April 2010 14:05:52
[quote=Caledfryn] [/quote] Couldn't agree more.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 19 April 2010 23:33:42
Cleaned off nearly 2 decades of dust and crud today. Firstly with a dust pan brush and vac taking it from this.... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02846Medium.jpg[/IMG] to this... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02849Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02853Medium.jpg[/IMG] Lovely patina... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02850Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02851Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02852Medium.jpg[/IMG] Then used the typical proprietry products to cut and clean the paint back to it's natural self... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02855Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02854Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02856Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02857Medium.jpg[/IMG] Only a start, but gives me a cleaner base to work with. I'll tackle the interior next I think? I'm not shooting to restore, just to remove dirt and grime to releal it;s natural beauty and condition.

Posted by: 48REME - 20 April 2010 17:26:49
What a fantastic original patina you have revealed! It looks really nice like this now. The only thing, I wonder if you have to do something to seal the very fragile and thin coat of original paint and primer left over the metal. With the humidity you get in winter, especially in this country, it will permeate through rapidly to the metal and it might start to rust. Maybe a clear coat of non-gloss varnish could be applied to seal your car against the elements? Maybe others know of another/better way to do achieve this? :wink: You are very lucky to have a car in that state, it's history on wheels...:d

Posted by: Standard split - 20 April 2010 19:04:18
[quote=48REME]What a fantastic original patina you have revealed! It looks really nice like this now. The only thing, I wonder if you have to do something to seal the very fragile and thin coat of original paint and primer left over the metal. With the humidity you get in winter, especially in this country, it will permeate through rapidly to the metal and it might start to rust. Maybe a clear coat of non-gloss varnish could be applied to seal your car against the elements? Maybe others know of another/better way to do achieve this? :wink: You are very lucky to have a car in that state, it's history on wheels...:d [/quote] Yes, a car like this is a real joy to have, and of course it would be a real shame to have it repainted, erasing all the visual history that 48REME mentions :wink: It is a real problem to hold a car such as this in its present state without further deterioration which, in our winter climate is difficult. I have had my '49 which is also in its original paint now for 25 years and have found a regular Waxoyl rub all over helps to keep the damp out. But you may not want to take your car around like that as it will soon look dirty. I personally feel that varnishing/laquering over the car is a like adding paint over the top, except that you can see through it. Unlike Waxoyl, you won't be able to wipe it off, and the finish will no longer be original. [b]A DILEMA[/b] :shock: A spare windscreen too :?: [ATTACH]4342[/Attach]

Posted by: 69project - 20 April 2010 21:23:33
im having this same dilema,my paint is even more far gone and resembles sand paper! ive bgt collinite but have not got round to trying it yet,its not meant to be as harsh as anchor wax even though it should never see rain etc i just worry what to use :?

Posted by: Last Triumph - 20 April 2010 21:40:39
Yes, a spare windscreen... plus a treasure trove of NOS parts and OEM parts that came with it. Eachaust, heater boxes, ATE brake and wheel cylinders, gaskets, seals, trims, rubbers plus lods of other stuff - the lot. :wink:

Posted by: RockStock - 21 April 2010 00:01:31
[quote=Standard split]It is a real problem to hold a car such as this in its present state without further deterioration which, in our winter climate is difficult. I have had my '49 which is also in its original paint now for 25 years and have found a regular Waxoyl rub all over helps to keep the damp out[/quote] :idea: another good idea would be to keep it indoors all the time. and maybe to never drive it.:idea:

Posted by: 55Kab - 21 April 2010 07:42:21
[quote=48REME]What a fantastic original patina you have revealed! It looks really nice like this now.[/quote] Agreed...but I would really start to think about clear coating it LT. Then it's protected for quite a few more years to come. :wink: [quote=Standard split]It is a real problem to hold a car such as this in its present state without further deterioration which, in our winter climate is difficult.[/quote] No it's not John. You just need to spend some money on proper protection. After all, we all seem to spend a lot of money on the car's themselves and then most seem unwilling to spend a little more on really looking after their pride and joy. You just need to get something like this: https://www.carcoon.co.uk/carcoons/index.asp

Posted by: 55Kab - 21 April 2010 07:42:54
[quote=RockStock]:idea: another good idea would be to keep it indoors all the time. and maybe to never drive it.:idea: [/quote] :lol: Nice one Chris! :beer:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 21 April 2010 11:15:07
It is garaged in a well insulated garage attached to the house with the central heating boiler and pipes in, so as normal garages go, it's in a fairly warm and dry enviroment. Interestingly, it has been under sheets in a UK barn for the last 17 years and the patina is exactly the same as when it came from Portugal. It was discovered and rescued from a cobbled street and brought back to the UK, then just stored until now, never driven, never registered. I've seen photo's of when it was discovered and it really hasn't changed or decayed at all. It will only ever get infrequent use and only in the dry. I won't even be washing it with water - just wiping away road film and dust with a suitable wax/polish/spray - it's not like I'm worried about scratching the paint finish, as there's already plenty of dings and dents and scrapes on the wings etc that will need careful dollying. But I'll be leaving them unfinished and not refinnishing them as they just add to the history, charactar and originality of the car. There are more than enogh concourse restored examples out there - for which this is the perfect candidate, but for the time being, I have no intention to destroy it's virginity. Once I've been through it, got it back on the road and MOT'd etc, I'll clean all the wheel arches off, remove all the dry mud, dust and light surface corrosion with a stiff brush, then choose a decent protection product and just cake it all over the underside, inner panels, bulkheads, inner floorpans etc - something like Dinitrol 3125, or waxoyl etc. I'm not going to underseal it, or put any other 'permanent' coating on, as this will hide the natural condition, but just something to keep the moisture out that can be cleaned off with white spirit etc in the future should plans change. As for the external patina - I'll find a quality wax/sealent such as autoglym extra gloss protection or similar and just keep aplying it and applying it until it is well and truely drenched / soaked with it. It's lasted well this far, so as long as it is kept dry, I'm sure it'll be fine.

Posted by: Standard split - 21 April 2010 12:18:49
[quote=RockStock] :idea: another good idea would be to keep it indoors all the time. and maybe to never drive it.:idea: [/quote] :evil: Oooof :!: Right in there – and well below the belt :x :lol: [quote=Last Triumph] … As for the external patina - I'll find a quality wax/sealent such as autoglym extra gloss protection or similar and just keep aplying it and applying it until it is well and truely drenched / soaked with it. It's lasted well this far, so as long as it is kept dry, I'm sure it'll be fine. [/quote] … another good idea would be to keep it indoors all the time. and maybe to never drive it :wink: Fact is you can treasure your all original jewell as much as possible, but once she's out on a public road with the many idiots in their buzz boxes … :evil: And after an original car has had shunt/collision damage repaired, well, it's no longer original :( I do very much admire your approach to keeping the car untouched and avoiding a repaint, cars such as this are getting rarer and rarer, with restored cars becoming more plentiful :wink:

Posted by: 55Kab - 21 April 2010 13:13:38
[quote=Standard split]And after an original car has had shunt/collision damage repaired, well, it's no longer original[/quote] Did he really just write that? :shock::lol: :lol:

Posted by: Standard split - 21 April 2010 13:39:23
[quote=55Kab] Did he really just write that? :shock::lol: :lol: [/quote] Talking gibberish – the election's coming and I want to be an MP :p

Posted by: 55Kab - 21 April 2010 14:58:43
[quote=Standard split]Talking gibberish – the election's coming and I want to be an MP :p[/quote] H'mmm, yes I think so as I was thinking about a famous black 53 (or is that 50!) Split Beetle! Think you should stand for the "We follow Rattletrap party"...:wink:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 21 April 2010 19:24:05
[quote=Standard split] Talking gibberish – the election's coming and I want to be an MP :p [/quote] Yes,you have a lot in common with an MP.

Posted by: Standard split - 22 April 2010 10:32:49
[quote='50 Karmann] Yes,you have a lot in common with an MP.[/quote] I can see the headlines now: [i]'More MPs expenses claims exposed, the Rattletrap Party Transport Minister, Standard Split, found claiming expenses for ribbed semaphores, heart tail lights and period radio…'[/i]:lol: [b]Back on topic [/b]– When you have the UK reg plates made for this so original car, it would be great if you can get the 3D type like the car has at present – they're still available :wink:

Posted by: 55Kab - 22 April 2010 12:31:44
[quote=Standard split]get the 3D type like the car has at present – they're still available :wink:[/quote] Where from John?

Posted by: Standard split - 22 April 2010 12:38:23
[quote=55Kab] Where from John? [/quote] See a stall at the Enfield Pageant of Motoring last year taking orders for the 3D letter type, and also making the black pressed out type on the spot. This one's on the web: www.pl8s.co.uk/Framptons-Pre-1963-Number-Plates.php There's others I'd imagine as well :o

Posted by: 48REME - 22 April 2010 14:28:56
I got mine at: https://www.classicplatesonline.co.uk/?kw=classic%20car%20plates&fl=407065&ci=3095566484&network=s :wink: [ATTACH]4344[/Attach]

Posted by: Standard split - 22 April 2010 15:15:10
[quote=48REME]I got mine at: https://www.classicplatesonline.co.uk/?kw=classic%20car%20plates&fl=407065&ci=3095566484&network=s :wink: [/quote] I can see why you love your car :wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 22 April 2010 15:16:08
The right plates certainly are the final touch :wink:

Posted by: 48REME - 22 April 2010 16:43:35
[quote=Standard split]The right plates certainly are the final touch :wink: [/quote] I had put the same ones on SSL, the Jupiter grey 51 Standard which you now have, John.:wink: I think they suit old cars the best, they're so quaint and chunky. And with time, they fade and turn a bit yellow. The '4' on mine are doing just that.:d

Posted by: GKL 7 - 22 April 2010 19:16:52
[quote=Standard split] heart tail lights [/quote] They'd be wrong for a 1950 'tho,wouldn't they?:?

Posted by: Standard split - 22 April 2010 20:58:40
[quote='50 Karmann] They'd be wrong for a 1950 'tho,wouldn't they?:? [/quote] Prototype heart tail lights, of course:d

Posted by: Standard split - 22 April 2010 21:01:50
[quote=48REME] I had put the same ones on SSL, the Jupiter grey 51 Standard which you now have, John.:wink: I think they suit old cars the best, they're so quaint and chunky. And with time, they fade and turn a bit yellow. The '4' on mine are doing just that.:d [/quote] SSL's have mellowed nicely, and as you know, this is a rather nice car to boot :wink:

Posted by: 48REME - 23 April 2010 14:52:33
[quote=Standard split] as you know, this is a rather nice car to boot :wink: [/quote] I always say that if I hadn't come across the 48, I would gladly have made that my final car at the time...a lovely, healthy, weathered teutonic standard in all its severe glory!:wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 23 April 2010 15:09:18
[quote=48REME] ...a lovely, healthy, weathered teutonic standard in all its severe glory!:wink: [/quote] Excellent description – its a joy to drive as well, great suspension and crash box, very responsive too:beer: The true People's Car in all its severity of finish:d

Posted by: GKL 7 - 23 April 2010 19:03:02
[quote=Standard split]its a joy to drive as well [/quote] You mean you've actually driven it,my word,that's a first.

Posted by: RockStock - 23 April 2010 21:15:01
early original 3d uk plates (ie made by Ace) were triangular cross-section weren't they these are the only ones ive seen that look close: [img]https://www.pl8s.co.uk/images/Ace1651.jpg[/img] the common ones now available are flat topped - look wrong imo: [img]https://www.pl8s.co.uk/images/CIMG0608.jpg[/img]

Posted by: 55Kab - 23 April 2010 22:18:48
[quote=RockStock]early original 3d uk plates (ie made by Ace) were triangular cross-section weren't they[/quote] Correct Chris. Here's my original Bluemels rear plate: [ATTACH]4355[/Attach]

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 23 April 2010 22:25:48
The correct digits like in Martin's plates (pre-63) are called 'peak digits'.

Posted by: 48REME - 24 April 2010 12:39:46
I think the profile varied over the decades, first depending on wheteher they were white or silver, also the actual font seems to have changed, some letters with and without serifs, rounded 'S' and squared ones too.

Posted by: RockStock - 24 April 2010 21:16:45
[quote=55Kab] Correct Chris. Here's my original Bluemels rear plate: [/quote] Mart, they're the daddio...NICE. No edging Here's another one, a pal's 58 Beetle, 'ACE' tag top left. Metal backing plate. Just shout quality! [img]https://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/672290.jpg[/img]

Posted by: 55Kab - 25 April 2010 09:01:38
[quote=RockStock] Mart, they're the daddio...NICE. No edging[/quote] Yep, and it's going back on the car. Fully restored of course! [ATTACH]4358[/Attach]

Posted by: Robb - 26 April 2010 10:14:29
not running a front one martin? :wink:

Posted by: 55Kab - 26 April 2010 12:33:27
[quote=Robb]not running a front one martin? :wink: [/quote] Haven't decided yet. All depends when the former owner gives me the OG front plate to restore! :wink: Sorry to hijack your thread LT. Love to see some more pics...

Posted by: Robb - 26 April 2010 15:40:42
oh Mike still haves it huh, be a shame to seperate it from the car. Keep the barn find pics coming 8)

Posted by: Last Triumph - 27 April 2010 21:10:48
Haven't been near it for a while. Still exploring and discovering stuff. Next major job is to get the motor running. Happily, it turns over freely, smoothly and whith good compression, so other than fresh fuel and a check of the ignition system - hopfully I can get it to fire and run. Then it;s a case of getting it up to MOT standard and then registered.

Posted by: Arminius - 28 April 2010 11:42:55
Reading through your thread thought you may be interested in a product i found, i have a car in very similar condition. I wanted to preserve the paint but also to know there would be no further deterioration. I found this stuff https://www.vortz-racingcars.co.uk/#vapourlube, is a two stage process, use it like a poultice on open paint / rust, it soaks in and stabilises / inhibits. No affiliation to the company, but the guy who developed this is a whizz (racing from the 60s, building concept cars for Audi etc), and his car, again un-restored and treated with this stuff has the most marvellous OG look.

Posted by: GKL 7 - 28 April 2010 13:34:01
[quote=Arminius]Reading through your thread thought you may be interested in a product i found, i have a car in very similar condition. I wanted to preserve the paint but also to know there would be no further deterioration. I found this stuff https://www.vortz-racingcars.co.uk/#vapourlube, is a two stage process, use it like a poultice on open paint / rust, it soaks in and stabilises / inhibits. No affiliation to the company, but the guy who developed this is a whizz (racing from the 60s, building concept cars for Audi etc), and his car, again un-restored and treated with this stuff has the most marvellous OG look.[/quote] Interesting stuff,looks like the perfect solution.

Posted by: Standard split - 28 April 2010 20:44:06
[quote='50 Karmann]Interesting stuff,looks like the perfect solution. [/quote] I think I'll keep to preserving my '49s original exterior with a regular Waxoyl buff over :wink:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 02 May 2010 13:05:47
Continued with the clean up process today and concentrated on the interior. The intention isn't to get it perfect, certainly not at this stage, but to at least get all the dust and grime out to reveal what I've got to work with. Polished the glass inside and out first. Comes up lovely and makes such a difference. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02914Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02944Medium.jpg[/IMG] I then vac'd the inside as best I could and gave the seats and interior panels a good wipe over with a soapy cloth and a soft nail brush. I was amazed at how well they came out. The interior of this car really is one of it's best features. I love it. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02915Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02916Medium.jpg[/IMG] I won't lie to you - I'm lovin' this original Oval lark... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02917Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02923Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02924Medium.jpg[/IMG] Nice to see all four of the original VW floor mats still in place and pretty much like new. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02936Medium.jpg[/IMG] Even better when you peel them back and find this sort of stuff! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02926Medium.jpg[/IMG] Whilst poking around, I found some nice historic touches. In the driver’s door pocket, there were some maps and other Portuguese documents [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02918Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02922Medium.jpg[/IMG] In the glove box was a plaque from the local district and a couple of coins [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02938Medium.jpg[/IMG] Nice tax disc in the screen - last used 1981 which means it was locked away for 12 years before it even came to the UK! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02941Medium.jpg[/IMG] And one last shot showing the rather nice sun visor. I’d not noticed this before. A new one and a spare one came with the car too! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02940Medium.jpg[/IMG] A day full of WIN me thinks. As a side line - if I can't revive the battery, where is the best place to get the correct type. size and capacity 6V battery so I can still use the factory cover plate etc? :D

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 02 May 2010 19:12:32
I have used this company before although i now run an optima red top battery as i use the car quite a bit and found the old style batteries were only lasting 18 months or so and i was always having to keep it charged .I left the optima for over a month and it started as lively as a 12v car.tayna do all the rubber case batteries here: https://www.tayna.co.uk/catalog/302/0/Classic-Hard-Rubber-Batteries-6V-Classic-Car-Batteries-page1.html

Posted by: beefykeefy - 03 May 2010 23:00:49
What a great little car :shock: The interior is amazing. Love all those extra little touches you've found around the car from it's life in Portugal 8)

Posted by: Last Triumph - 04 June 2010 22:46:22
Decided to see if I could get the motor running the other day. I installed a brand new old style rubber cased type 404 battery to give me good cranking ability, but before I started, I realised that the fuel had been in the tank since 1981 and was 29 years old so used a pump and some tubing suck all the old fuel out - about 8 litres or so, leaving the tank empty and dry. Here is some of the fuel I sucked out - It looked and smelt just like Ronseal varnish! Grim.... Still burns pretty well though... ;) [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02973.jpg[/IMG] I quick look inside the tank with a torch confirmed that one of the jobs for the near future will be to remove the tank and flush it out as there was a fair bit of bebris in there at the bottom, but I guess that's normal. Anyway, got the trusty gerry can out and put about 10 litres of fresh fuel with additive in there so I know I had fresh fuel. Fuel wasn't getting through to the fuel pump so I've either got a blockage in the line or there is a problem with the fuel reserve tap etc, etc. I'll investigate this at a later date once I know the motor is back to health. I disconnected the fuel unions in the engine bay and tried to blow through to the tank without luck, so tried to pump a little fuel back through the system which highlighted a fuel leak in the flexi pipe above the gearbox, so on the basis that this will be old, perrished and in need of replacement, I cut it off where it exits the engine bay and connected it directly to the gerry can, plugging the tank end before hand. ;) After a load of priming, fiddling and checking I knew I was getting fuel. With my new 6V battery, the motor cranked very well indeed, but I wasn't getting a spark. After some tinkering and testing I found that one of the insulating washers where the LT wire, condenser and dizzy body join had perrised and was causing a short. I rebuilt and cleaned this area and managed to get a healthy spark at the plugs which was a releif. We'd measured the resistance across the coil outputs etc and were happy that the coil was ok. With a fresh dab of fuel and some crossed fingers, I gave it a go and managed a couple of coughs, spits and pops from the carb and exhaust, but nothing that threatened to catch on or run. Next I checked the timing and found it was very advanced but discovered the dizzy was stuck solid. I used as much force as I dared and it wouldn't budge. Gave it some WD-40 and came back to it a while later but no joy. At this point I was satisfied I'd got clean fuel, decent spark and good cranking - none of which I had that morning, so that's a plus, but I needed to find a way of freeing off the dizzy so I can set the timing.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 04 June 2010 22:48:16
Bit of progress and an awkward problem overcome today so even though it's not much, it's still another step towards getting it running. I'd been using penetrating oil on the dizzy body for almost a week and it wouldn't budge, so decided a bit of heat and extra force might be required. Got the case nice and hot with a little bit of heat gun action, being careful not to go OTT. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02979Medium.jpg[/IMG] I then removed the vacuum and fuel pipes along with the fan belt to give me more rome to work in then using some very strong nylon rope and a screw driver with a hole in the handle, rigged up a homemade strap spanner type of thing. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02980Medium.jpg[/IMG] With what seemed like an impossible amount of force, it finally gave way and slowly rotated a bit. . . Result! . . . However, it was still very, very tight and needed another few goes with the strap spanner to turn it back and forth a few times, getting a little more free each time, but still needing lots of torque - way more than I could do by hand. At this point I decided that now I'd 'broken the seal' I'd get a load more penetrating oil down there and leave it for a while. *****Quick drive about in Dad's '61 Merc 'cause it's rude not to, followed by a stack of bacon butties round at Mum and Dad's and I came back with another homemade tool***** Dad took a sacrificial Allen key and ground down the end to look like this. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02975Medium.jpg[/IMG] This was so it would fit into the small hole in the dizzy body as an anchor point whilst the rest of it was used as a lever through the hole that the vacuum advance slides through. I put some rubber hose round the allen key where it passed through the dizzy body to stop it damaging the casting. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02977Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02978Medium.jpg[/IMG] This gave me a decent amount of leverage to wiggle the dizzy back and forth as I added more and more penetrating oil. I must of been there for over an hour - jeez it was hard and slow progress with every dozen or so very tight wiggles yielding about half a mm of vertical travel, but it was coming out, if very slowly. Eventually out it came, and I must say I was very happy as I sat there, panting away like a woman after childbirth, cradling my distributor in my arms, tears of joy rolling down my cheeks.... Anyway - basically, it was the seal that had turned into a mushy glue that was holding it firm. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02981Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02985Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02987Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02982Medium.jpg[/IMG] Took this opportunity to clean up all the penetrating oil and other gunk and crap that I had access to with the dizzy off. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02984Medium.jpg[/IMG] Rest of the motor should come up nice with some elbow grease. Lovely and original. Love it.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 04 June 2010 22:50:08
With the dizzy off the car, I thought it would be a good time to strip it down and clean it all up. You don’t want to see a load of pictures of springs and clips etc, but here are a couple just in case. This is the vacuum advance plate that rotates within, all cleaned up and ready for a little grease. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02991Medium.jpg[/IMG] Cleaned all the silly stuff like the nuts, bolts, washers etc then carefully assembled it all again and without the seal, popped it back in, more to keep it safe out the way until a new seal arrives. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02994Medium.jpg[/IMG] Whilst I was cleaning stuff, I cleaned up the air filter and under all the grime found this little reminder of it’s Portuguese origin. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC02992Medium.jpg[/IMG] That’s it for now – not much, but it was a pain and needed doing, so I can at least cross that off and know that the distributor is back in business. Next I’ll have a look at rebuilding the fuel pump, carb and replace the fuel flexi hoses and blow out the fuel lines etc.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 04 June 2010 22:51:58
Put a big order into Karmann Konnection for a load of silly, obscure and fiddly bits to use during the recommissioning process including a rebuild kit for the carb, new seals and gaskets for the tank, a genuine VW fuel reserve tap as it made more sense than to rebuild the old one with loads of separate parts, and the usual plugs, points, condenser etc plus a few other bits and bobs. Excellent service from KK, I must admit. I also decided that I wanted original cloth braided fuel hose, but after hearing horror stories about original rubber hose rotting out very quickly, set about trying to find modern DIN spec hose of the correct 5.5mm ID that also had black cloth braiding. Following a recommendation, I found a supplier of pukka nitrile DIN spec cloth braided hose which sadly was only available on a large reel and not small lengths despite me phoning round for ages. Not cheap, but very correct and up to the latest current specs. So, bought a huge reel! The idea being that I'll sell the rest to fellow enthusiasts as and when required for those that want the original look but only want a metre or two etc.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 04 June 2010 22:53:24
Great news today - after 6 weeks my birth certificate turned up confirming all the good stuff I'd hoped for..... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/BirthCetificate.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/MatchingNumbers.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: GKL 7 - 05 June 2010 16:28:16
That car is a great find,congratulations. Keep us posted with your progress and take some pictures for us,first time you go for a spin.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 05 June 2010 18:06:43
And today's update . . . . Completed the rebuild of the dizzy with a new set of points and a new condenser. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03007Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03008Medium.jpg[/IMG] Apparently, working on old VW's is a spectator sport? This was for my Dad who kept me company for a while this afternoon. He's not feeling to well at the moment. :hug: [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03013Medium.jpg[/IMG] Time for some new plugs. The old [B][I]three[/I][/B] were certainly due for a change. Yes, three - one was missing! :lol: But fortunately the plug lead had been left still in the hole and the threads seemed ok, so in went the new ones, gapped correctly of course. Also cleaned up the original dizzy cap, making sure all the contacts were ok and 'bright'. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03012Medium.jpg[/IMG] Plusgas finally arrived . . . :lol: [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03023Medium.jpg[/IMG] Decided the next job would be a carb rebuild. So, here's a before shot. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03014Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03027Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03032Medium.jpg[/IMG] Rebuild kit on standby.... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03025Medium.jpg[/IMG] Ready for it's first bath. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03035Medium.jpg[/IMG] At this stage, all I wanted to do was give it a quick sprinkle to get the worst of the crud off, so I've got a reasonably clean base to start from. Once I've got it in bits, I'll clean it properly. Came up nice though. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03037Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03039Medium.jpg[/IMG] Looking forward to actually rebuilding it - love jobs like this.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 05 June 2010 19:26:36
Nice work!that engine will look great cleaned up 8)

Posted by: 64rotbox - 08 June 2010 02:39:21
Should just chip in here again I think, as this thing seems to get better with every photo. The interior looks fantastic.

Posted by: 55Kab - 08 June 2010 03:12:26
[quote=64rotbox]Should just chip in here again I think, as this thing seems to get better with every photo[/quote] x2 You're doing a great job LT. I love all the detail photos, keep them coming. Looks like you'll have the engine running pretty soon. As to the tank, I'd have that out and clean the inside and rebuild the reserve tap before you try starting the engine with fuel from the tank.

Posted by: vintagevw - 08 June 2010 12:28:39
Great find! Hope you get it soon on the road. :beer:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 08 June 2010 19:49:07
Next job was to strip, clean and rebuild the carb. Never done this before so it was a journey into the unknown so with a hot cup of tea and prepared work area, I set about the strip down. The inside of the throtle body and venturi were caked in carbon deposits. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03089Medium.jpg[/IMG] I then liften the top of the carb and was greeted with this in the float chamber . . [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03097Medium.jpg[/IMG] Urrrgghhh! So glad I decided to rebuild the car before trying to fire it up for the first time. Wouldn't have wanted any of that getting into the motor! Now . . . about carb cleaning . . . I first soaked all the components in carb cleaner for a while which certainly did a half decent job of cleaning everything - the emphasis on half decent. I just felt that things could have been cleaner, despite me stabbing everything franticly with a stiff brush. Next up I tried brake cleaner which was a litle bit better and got a bit more of the really stubborn grime off to the point that I felt fairly happy about the cleanliness of everything, but not 100% convinced. So, just out of curiosity, I dipped everything in a bowl of cellulose thinners for a stir and couldn't believe how much more effective it was. Bearing in mind all the components had been previously bathed in carb cleaner, then brake cleaner for a long time on each occasion, you;d think they were clean? No chance. The amount of extra crud the celly got off was amazing!! I poured the celly thinners back into a bottle to show how much junk had come off 3rd time round! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03098Medium.jpg[/IMG] Amyway - moving on, I was now left with this daunting picture! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03100Medium.jpg[/IMG] Here are the fully cleaned components up close. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03101Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03103Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03104Medium.jpg[/IMG] It was at this point I was starting to dread putting it all back together, but got the rebuild kit ready... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03105Medium.jpg[/IMG] .... and set to it. Mrs LT was curious as to why i wasn't sitting on the sofa with the lap top on my knee, walking into the kitchen to discover this... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03107Medium.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: Last Triumph - 08 June 2010 19:50:08
Determined not to go to bed until it was back together, I toiled away until I was left with this... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03111Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03112Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03113Medium.jpg[/IMG] Bit better than this, that's for sure! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03027Medium.jpg[/IMG] Really satisfied with that, considering I'd never done one before. Next up, I'll rebuild the fuel pump. Ordered and new coil, plug leads and fan belt today too....

Posted by: Last Triumph - 08 June 2010 19:56:05
Right then..... making the most of having this week off work, I did a bit more today. First job was getting the carb back on. I had a little clean up around the dynamo first whilst access was easier. Looks much better now. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03135.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03137.jpg[/IMG] As I do each little bit, I've been degreasing and cleaning the surrounding area, but by bit. Already, the engine bay is starting to look a little fresher. As I've said, I won't be 'over-restoring' this car - it will be kept original and preserved, and that means no powder coated tinware etc, etc. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03136.jpg[/IMG] Then I decided it would be a good idea to rebuild the fuel pump. I recoall there being a kit with all the boxes of spares I got with it so went up into the loft for a root. First box I opened had the original wipers in, and a set of NOS ones too!..... which was nice.... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03116.jpg[/IMG] Amongst all the treasure, I quickly found a nice original NOS fuel pump rebuild kit. Very handy! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03114.jpg[/IMG] I pulled the pump off and stripped it down, taking pictures along the way to use a re-assembly guide. This pic shows the installation of the valve plates and springs. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03118.jpg[/IMG] To be fair, the original diaphram was perfectly servicable, but it would be daft not to replace it now. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03142.jpg[/IMG] Original and now unavailable bakerlight mounting plate is in very good order. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03133.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03134.jpg[/IMG] For the record - it's a pain in the ass to keep on having to remove the latex gloves in order to take pictures so I don;t get my camera filthy! I then started the clean up process as per the carb - out with the celly thinners again.... For the record, I wash any residue from the thinners off with brake cleaner afterwards, just to be sure. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03122.jpg[/IMG] It's amazing where all these little bits come from! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03123.jpg[/IMG] Time for the new diaphram... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03124.jpg[/IMG] The diaphram needs to be pre-loaded as you clamp down the cover plate onto the pump body, and this is done by depressing the cam link arm within the pump body so it is 35mm beneath the mating face of the body's flange. You can see it down the centre of the body - it's the shiny bit. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03127.jpg[/IMG] As the pump rod from the engine presses agains this arm, it pulls the diaphram downwards, drawing fuel into the pump. I got a hard lump of plastic and cut it down to size - 34.5mm to be precise, then used a steel rule of 0.5mm thickness as a shim which allowed me to manipulate the plastic block until it was all square within the vice jaws. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03129.jpg[/IMG] Here you can see the amount of pre-tension it puts on the diaphram. The cover plate is screwed on in this position. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03130.jpg[/IMG] And there it is - all clean, back together with new gaskets, diaphram and valve plates. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03131.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03132.jpg[/IMG] The amount of crud and oily paste that had accumulated under the pump was awesome, so it was a good opportunity to thoroughly clean this area and recover all the dropped washers that had collected there! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03139.jpg[/IMG] Just before I reinstalled it, I suddenly realised that the kit doesn't come with the gaskets that sit eitherside of the bakerlite mounting plate. Hmmmm, what to do..... On the off chance, I ventured back up into the loft to my box of all conquering NOS goodness, and came back down stairs with this.... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03143.jpg[/IMG] ... which contains the two gaskets I need. How convenient!

Posted by: Robb - 08 June 2010 20:34:33
awesome work,loving the comprehensive posts 8)

Posted by: harveypj - 08 June 2010 23:43:38
A great car you have there and some fantastic work gong on. Just one observation on your feul pump rebuld. Because your 0.5mm steel rule run right across the base flange of the pump it did not add to the pre load, If I have under stood your method correctly you only depressed the cam lever by 34.5mm from the mating face.

Posted by: tman - 09 June 2010 01:33:37
[quote=harveypj]If I have under stood your method correctly you only depressed the cam lever by 34.5mm from the mating face. [/quote] Nice catch! I don't know if 0.5mm makes a lot of difference to the pre-loading? I just wanted to chime in and suggest LT could use 0.5mm worth of feeler gauges to make up the difference instead of re-making the 34.5mm spacer.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 09 June 2010 20:54:00
[quote=harveypj]A great car you have there and some fantastic work gong on. Just one observation on your feul pump rebuld. Because your 0.5mm steel rule run right across the base flange of the pump it did not add to the pre load, If I have under stood your method correctly you only depressed the cam lever by 34.5mm from the mating face. [/quote] Great observation, and yes you are correct. It is only half a mmm which is 1.5% though so I'll not lose any sleep at this stage. If it doesn't run, I can always re-do it with an extra 0.5mm but to be honest, it's not that critical and I'm sure there are pumps out there with little or no preload and some with a rough guess at a pre-load, not to mention the fact that the diaphram with stretch a little over time as it wears.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 09 June 2010 20:55:06
Even though I had to mask up and paint the kitchen as well as attend my daughter's parents afternoon, I still managed a little time in the garage. Before I could remount the fuel pump, I had to remove the old gasket from the engine case which was well and truely stuck on. Had to soften it up with plusgas then gently scrape away at the surface until it was all clear. I then smoothed the surface with some 600 grit wet n dry. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03148.jpg[/IMG] Notice how you an see the cam shaft gear through the hole... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03150.jpg[/IMG] All ready to fit, along with the gaskets from the NOS kit. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03151.jpg[/IMG] Much better. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03153.jpg[/IMG] Refitted all the solid fuel lines etc - engine bay looking better all the time. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03154.jpg[/IMG] Next up was to flush and sort out the tuel tank, hoses and lines. First I had to drain the fresh fuel I'd put in when I originally tried to get it going. To do this, I taped a length of tubing to a garden cane to keep it rigid allowing me to poke it into the corners of the tank etc to get as much fuel out as possible. I attached this to a little electric pump, similar to a windscreen washer pump which discharged the fuel down a funnel and into a large fuel container. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03155.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03157.jpg[/IMG] I then needed to remove the tank. On early Beetles, to do this you must first remove the right hand side front wheel to allow access to the split pin that holds the reserve tap lever to the fuel tap underneath the tank. With the wheel off, I got my fist proper look at the condition of the inner wings etc, which were even better that I'd hoped. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03158.jpg[/IMG] All over the car is this light coating of dry and dusty surface corrosion with no rot whatsoever - utter fantastic and what I'd always hoped and wished for. Just before I started on the fuel tap disconnection process, I couldn't resist squirting a little WD40 on the inner wings and wiping it with a cloth , just to see what is underneath the crud.... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03160.jpg[/IMG] Result! Anyway, the tank came out no probelm (with the flexi hose disconnected of course) and I was yet again delighted to see what excellent condition the underside of the tank is in. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03162.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03161.jpg[/IMG] I've drenched the old fuel tap in plus gas to soak over night to make it's removal easier tomorrow. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03163.jpg[/IMG] It will of course be replaced with a genuine VW replacement. I was going to rebuild the original, but with fuel being such a safety issue, I decided just to replace, although I'll keep the original as a keepsake. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03165.jpg[/IMG] Likewise, I have the correct fibre seal for when I refit the tank. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03166.jpg[/IMG] And finally - the font bulkhead is just as solid and rot free as everywhere else, albiet with a lot more accumulated dirt grease and grime, but I'll really enjoy cleaning it all up and protecting it. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03168.jpg[/IMG] That's all for today. Tomorrow I'll check if the blockage was in the fuel tap which i suspect has seized in the 'closed position, or whether the solid ful lines are blocked. We'll see. I'll also replace the flexi lines with my new braided nitrile hose and give the tank a good clean out.

Posted by: 59 Ragtop - 10 June 2010 17:49:42
Looks great.Keep the posts coming,really informative.

Posted by: 48REME - 10 June 2010 19:07:18
Really nice, look forward to seeing it on the road!:wink:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 10 June 2010 19:57:38
Today was fuel tank day. I wish I'd taken a picture of the inside and bottom of the fuel tank before I started, but let's just say it looked like something between a river bed and a festival toilet on a Sunday afternoon. I pondered for some time about whether to send it away for a clean and flush or to have a go myself. Needless to say, I thought I'd have a crack myself first. Before I started, I decided now the tank was out, it would be a good time to check if the solid fuel lines where clogged or not. I prayed they were clear as the idea of trying to unblock them or worse still replace them wasn't something I cherished. I got some flexible but semi rigid fine piano wire and fed it through, bit by bit. Came out the other side no problem and clean as a whistle! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03171.jpg[/IMG] Big relief, I must say. I'll still give them a little air line action before I reconnect everything though, just in case there is a little foreign matter lurking in there. Back to the tank and how to get rid of 53 years of sludge, varnish, gunk, rust and who knows what else was lurking in there. Firstly, I dropped in the tank this large bowl of nuts, bolts, washers, fixtures and fittings to act as an abrasive. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03175.jpg[/IMG] I then emptied the remains of a bottle of cellulose thinners, a load of white spirit and some panel wipe for good measure - about 2-3 litres of mixture in total, then sealed the top of the tank with duct tape. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03169.jpg[/IMG] I then sloshed and shook the tank for all I was worth. Side to side, back and forth, up and down, rolling the tank over and over and over for about half an hour - bloody hard work I can tell you. On inspection, this had loosened and disolved all the paste and gunk and some of the scale and rust, but there was still a way to go. I drained the unspeakably grim fluid out of the tank and began phase two. I added about a cup full of this superb and highly concentrated water based degreaser I discovered a while ago, then added about a gallon of water. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03170.jpg[/IMG] This stuff has high foaming properties and makes you feel like you're giving it a bath! Back on with the duct tape and then more shake, rattle and roll. To the point of exhaustion. I knocked myself sick I was at it so hard, and sitting here on the sofa typing this now reminds me of the days I'd go for gold at the gym and not have the energy later to move! I kept at it for about 2 hours until I couldn't do any more. I peeled back the duct tape and was delighted to find the inside of the tank lovely and clean and free of all that had sullied it earlier. The water in there was black, and there was loads of loose debris swilling round so I then flushed it with the garden hose until it was perfectly clear, removing the nuts and bolts whilst I was at it. I wanted to dry it off as soon as possible, so switched the hoses round on my workshop vac and used it as a blower. 5 mins with the outlet hose in the tank had it bone dry..... ..... and bright orange with a fine coating of surface rust! D'oh! :lol: Had a quick think then came up with a cunning plan.... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03172.jpg[/IMG] Why the hell not, eh? I poured about half the bottle in, then back on with the duct tape. This time I just slowly rolled the tank around for 15 minutes makig sure I kept all the surfaces wet. I drained this off and then flushed the tank with the hose again until it was well and truly neutralised. Back on with the vac/blower again to dry it out. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03174.jpg[/IMG] The result? [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03173.jpg[/IMG] I'd call that a win. As it might be a little while before there is fuel in the tank again whilst I tend to the master cylinder etc whilst the tank is out, I emptied about a third of a can of WD40 in the tank so it formed a small pool in the bottom. I then rolled the tank around again to make sure everywhere got a decent coating. I'll rinse this out with a little fuel before I reinstall. Knackered, but satisfied.

Posted by: lucifar666 - 10 June 2010 22:37:38
Fantastic thread keep this up because this will be used as reference by me soon! and many others in the future:d

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 10 June 2010 22:51:32
[quote=lucifar666]Fantastic thread keep this up because this will be used as reference by me soon! and many others in the future:d [/quote] x2! It's threads like this that really inspire me to get out and get on with my beetle! Thanks Mike

Posted by: harveypj - 11 June 2010 22:48:52
X3 great reading, certainly makes a change from some of the rather repetative crap on certain other threads. This is what forums are all about. Looking forward to the next instalation8)

Posted by: Ovaltine - 12 June 2010 16:40:17
Really great pictures and info given on this thread. Did you once work for Haynes manuals :d I know where to look once I get my early Beetle :beer:

Posted by: Standard split - 14 June 2010 19:53:53
[quote=harveypj]X3 great reading, certainly makes a change from some of the rather repetative crap on certain other threads. This is what forums are all about. Looking forward to the next instalation8) [/quote] While I agree, this really is an excellent thread, I don't think that anyone should dismiss any one else's efforts as cr*p. I have had this labeled on a thread created by myself in the past :evil: The fact is, pre67vw has a very large amount of members, some of whom post nothing, and many certainly never start their own thread. On top of that there must be an enormous amount of 'surfers' and guests (Rob, any estimates per year?) that visit this really excellent site that cannot log-in and so never contribute. If people made no effort to add their views or piece the whole thing would fold. If any post is truly cr*p, Rob righty deletes it. Its inevitable that there will be repeated points or questions. The answer to those who feel that the content of some threads is poor is to start their 'more interesting' thread. If a thread is of no interest to anyone it dies anyway. Technical and informative threads such as this are a great asset to the forum – but it has to be fun and entertaining too. Many of us VW 'lifers' have had all the rebuilds we want. We just want the social chat and laid-back entertaining side :wink:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 14 June 2010 22:09:34
Bit of product advice please? As I want to preserve and keep original, rather than restore this car, I am keen to protect the bulkheads, inner wings/arches and floorpan etc from further decay. The car will be stored permanently in my warm and dry garage and will only be used in dry weather, unless I get caught out on the way home from a show, or have to park on wet grass etc etc. Once I've cleaned all the dry mud and dust off the areas in question, I want to coat them in something to help protect them. However..... I don't want it to be anything permanent, semi-permanent, textured or coloured - nothing black, no stone chip, undersealetc, etc. Just something a bit better than a can of WD40 etc. Unless someone can come up with a more suitable option, I'm trying to decide between traditional brushed on clear Waxoyl, or Dinitrol 3125. I know that the Waxoyl will dry out and go yellow eventually and need re-application, and I also know that the Dinitrol is very thin and will wash off more easily in general use. Any other suggestions or advice? I'm not going to 'do nothing' and leave it, nor am I going to put anything black or textured on etc.... Tempted by the Waxoyl.... Feedback appreciated!

Posted by: Standard split - 14 June 2010 22:17:38
Seriously, I really do highly recommend the clear Waxoly option. It really keeps the damp out, its pleasant to use compared with many other products, and easy to remove 8)

Posted by: harveypj - 15 June 2010 00:21:25
[quote=Standard split]Seriously, I really do highly recommend the clear Waxoly option. It really keeps the damp out, its pleasant to use compared with many other products, and easy to remove 8) [/quote] Totaly agree, If you go with it, try applying with a trigger spray bottle (I used an old auto glym tyre dressing bottle) you have to warm the waxoyl can in a bucket of hot water to thin it first. It realy does go on as a fine mist, much neater than brushing and more even than the pukka waxoyl sprayer.

Posted by: Standard split - 15 June 2010 11:11:10
[quote=harveypj]Totaly agree, If you go with it, try applying with a trigger spray bottle (I used an old auto glym tyre dressing bottle) you have to warm the waxoyl can in a bucket of hot water to thin it first. It realy does go on as a fine mist, much neater than brushing and more even than the pukka waxoyl sprayer.[/quote] Brilliant! I'll use the non-approved warmed sprayer tip :beer: I buff a Waxoyl coat over the exterior bodywork of my '49 periodically. It has the original paint which I of course want to keep on it. Wipes off easily with white spirit leaving the 60 year+ paint untouched :wink:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 15 June 2010 21:33:48
Waxoyl seems to have kept most of the at bay on my 53 since it was restored in the 80s but it does need doing regularly in the road spray areas.If your car had been undersealed from new and you were chipping away to reveal the original paint i would agree with cleaning and waxoyling but your pictures show very little original paint .probably not a popular idea on here, but i would remove the wings and check the mounting area.At the very least use a wire wheel on angle grinder to take it back to metal,Spot blast any brown stuff ,etch prime and get the paint matched .After a few years the paint will look factory anyway and you still have a rust free car.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 16 June 2010 08:25:34
Sorry to disagree, but the vast majority of the car is original paint. The only areas to have had a little paint are parts of the wings, a very small patch on the bonnet and a little on the passenger door. However, this was simply a light coat of paint on paint and I have been systematically and carefully removing this with 1500 wet n dry to reveal the original paint underneath. By the time I'm finished, it will be pretty much all original paint front to back. Being from Portugal, it has never been undersealed, so just needs a gentle clean up and some protection, hence the waxoyl question.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 16 June 2010 23:25:49
No,I meant the underneath not the outside paint .Outside paint looks fab.I was only meaning the under wing and inner wing area.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 16 June 2010 23:26:50
Not like me to play in the garage on a school night, but I was anxious to clean out the solid fuel line, and as it was a quick job.... I was going to use an air line, but wasn't convinced this would get it as clean as it could be so decided to set up a recirculating flush system. Firstly, I rigged up some tubing from both the front and rear ends of the solid line. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03216Large.jpg[/IMG] Then connected it in line with my small 12V electric pump with both ends in a container of cellulose thinners. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03218Large.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03217Large.jpg[/IMG] I simply left this running for about 10 minutes until it ran totally clear. After a while, I could see the old grotty fuel starting to settle on the top of the thinners in the container. Once this ceased to increase, I knew I'd got them completely clear and clean. A simple and effective way to make sure all my carb, pump and tank cleaning isn't wasted.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 16 June 2010 23:48:56
[quote=Sunroof53]No,I meant the underneath not the outside paint .Outside paint looks fab.I was only meaning the under wing and inner wing area.[/quote] Ah - I get you.... Sorry if I sounded deffensive! :oops: To be fair, lots of what you see under there is actually a fine layer of dried dust and mud, which with a quick wipe over with a damp cloth reveals mostly paint with various amounts of pitting. I know what you are saying, but I'm hell bent on keeping it unpainted and original, even if this means it will remain less than cosmetically perfect. I'm not trying to win any shows, prizes or awards, but I spent so long looking for a totally 100% original virgin, and there are so fuew out there, I'm going to kepp it that way. The wings have never been off and the motor has never been out, judging by the untouched nature of the various fasterners etc. Hope that makes sense?

Posted by: Last Triumph - 23 June 2010 21:41:21
Devoted my day off to the Oval again, and having thought long and hard about it, decided to invest in some POR15 Tank Sealer which from the reviews I've read, is about the best available. It leaves a rubbery casing inside the tank that not only deals all the seams, but prevents leaks and weaps, further rusting and build up of sludge and gunk. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03242.jpg[/IMG] It's a funny sort of stuff with a strange consistency, but a nice silver colour. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03246.jpg[/IMG] I gave the tank one more go with some metal ready, and then a thorough flushing and drying, the sealed off the drain hole with duct tape. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03244.jpg[/IMG] I also masked off the top of the tank arounf the filler neck as I didn't want any of this stuff to spill on the exterior of the tank as it's a real pig to get off apparently. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03245.jpg[/IMG] Once I'd poured the full tin inside, I sealed off the filler neck, again with duct tape, then slowly rolled the tank around for 10 minutes or so to make sure everywhere had been coated. Once I was satisfied I had an even coating, I placed the tank on two tall cans with the original tin underneath and removed the tape from the drain hole to allow all th eexcess to drain out. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03248.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03247.jpg[/IMG] It was still dripping over a hour later, but eventually stopped. What amazed me was how much poured out again back into the tin! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03262.jpg[/IMG] This was the medium sized tin as Frost didn't have the small tins in stock. Rest assured, if you can get hold of a small tin, it will be more than enough. Whilst I was waiting for it to stop drippng out, I couldn't help giving the gas cap a quick clean up. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03260.jpg[/IMG] Once it had stopped dripping, I cleaned up around the drain hole then had a peep inside. It gives a lovely even and smooth rubbery silver finish. Really impressed and cannot recommend it highly enough. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03258.jpg[/IMG] Next, with a few hours of the day remaining, I had a play with some of my new loot. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03261.jpg[/IMG] Whilst there isn't much wrong with the original coil, I think it is best for long term reliability and service to renew it with a BOSCH new one. I didn't like the look of the new mounting hardware, so I cleaned up the nuts, bolts and clamp from the old one and used these to mount the new one. One of the low priority jobs in the future will be to paint this black and apply the period Oval shaped BOSCH sticker for the authentic look. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03270.jpg[/IMG] I then cleaned up the old coil, fitted the new mounting hardware to it and will keep it as an emergency spare unit. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03263.jpg[/IMG] Next up was to replace the plug leads with some nice new Beru items which seam very well made, are the correct length and have the dust and heat insulation caps on them. I also removed the plug lead mounting tube and cleaned this up inside and out, along with the mounting clamps. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03265.jpg[/IMG] I had to remove the plugs again to fit the little screw on connector caps which came with the Beru leads to allow them to fit, but once all back together, it really freshens up the engine bay. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03269.jpg[/IMG] Whilst I was at it, I cleaned up the right hand side of the engine and then fitted the new fan belt. Starting to look like an engine now. Remember, I’m not trying to restore it, I’m just cleaning and preserving to retain it’s originality and virgin nature. One I’ve got it up and running, I’ll detail it further, but for now, this is a big step from what it was. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03266.jpg[/IMG] Once I’ve got the new fuel tap in and the new fuel hose, I can try to get it running in the knowledge that the carb, fuel and ignition system is spot on.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 26 June 2010 19:54:21
Didn't get much done today as I was mostly doing the brakes on Dad's '61 Merc. Couple of small updates though. Firstly, I fitted some NOS SWF wipers. It looks alot more complete now. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03271.jpg[/IMG] I wasn't really comfortable with the appearance of the new coil, and wanting it to look a little more authentic, I couldn't resist a little modification. I removed the modern stickers and flatted the alluminium body with 1000 grit wet n' dry. After some panel wipe, I gave it a few coats of acid etch primer. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03272.jpg[/IMG] Followed by several fine coats of satin black. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03273.jpg[/IMG] And with an original style sticker in place, it dramatically improves the look of the engine - to my eyes anyway. And before anyone mentions it, I know the sticker should be the other way up, but my OCD got the better of me! Just my own little personal touch. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03274.jpg[/IMG] A load more parts arrived this morning, so I've got plenty to go at in the next few weeks.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 03 July 2010 23:22:58
Wilst the tank is out I'll replace the inboard brake componentry. The original stuff may well be fine, but where brakes are concerned, I'm not going to take any risks at all - I'll clean up and keep all the stuff I remove and put it all in a glass case or something.... I ventured up into the attic to my mystery hoard of NOS/OEM wonderfulness that came with the car and was delighted to discover this little lot in one of the boxes.... Full set of original OEM ATE cylinders, flexi's and master cylinder! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03278.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03282.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03280.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03281.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03283.jpg[/IMG] Gotta be pleased with that me thinks. I've discovered that just a few minutes a day sorting through old original VW parts is a cure for no end of ailments! :) Got an order going in for all new rubber grommets and clips etc whilst I'm at it. All new fitting kits and shoes turned up the other day too, so we should be good to go for a full brake system rebuild soon. I'll just do the 'under tank' stuff initially to allow me to refit the tank and concentrate on getting the motor up and running, and then complete the brakes afterwards.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 03 July 2010 23:31:12
Set of TDE Theo Decker tail pipes waiting in the departure lounge too! :lol:

Posted by: 55Kab - 04 July 2010 10:13:03
LT > I'm sure you know this but just a word of caution with NOS brake components. Although never used, rubber doesn't last a lifetime so if it was me I would strip down the master and wheel cylinder's just to check the rubber components in there are all as they should be. :wink: Don't think you'll find any problems but like you say above, can't take chances with brakes. Keep up the good work. Bet you can't wait to drive this to the MOT station!

Posted by: Last Triumph - 04 July 2010 12:04:58
Cheers, will do. The good thing with them is that they are a very late production run, so not from the 50's or anything, so not as old as they could be, but I will check them thoroughly before installation. I've got a brand new set of nickel copper solid lines too, so once all installed and checked, I'll know that the brakes anre all new and 100%. Like I say, I'll clean and refurbish as much of the original stuff as I can and keep to one side. I can always push it to the MOT station! :lol: Thankfully, I've got a MOT station that will 'look beyond'the lack of screen washers which is a bonus.

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 04 July 2010 16:35:10
[quote=Last Triumph]Cheers, will do. The good thing with them is that they are a very late production run, so not from the 50's or anything, so not as old as they could be, but I will check them thoroughly before installation. I've got a brand new set of nickel copper solid lines too, so once all installed and checked, I'll know that the brakes anre all new and 100%. Like I say, I'll clean and refurbish as much of the original stuff as I can and keep to one side. I can always push it to the MOT station! :lol: Thankfully, I've got a MOT station that will 'look beyond'the lack of screen washers which is a bonus.[/quote] Fairy liquid bottle with a 'Washers' label on it seems to do the trick for most. :wink: All you need is a method of washing the windows when driving, just open the window and squirt. :lol:

Posted by: 55Kab - 05 July 2010 20:01:48
[quote=54 Gertie]Fairy liquid bottle with a 'Washers' label on it seems to do the trick for most. :wink: All you need is a method of washing the windows when driving, just open the window and squirt. :lol: [/quote] Exactly.....the Cabrio survived for 55 years without windscreen washers so I wasn't exactly keen on drilling the scuttle to fit a washer nozzle!

Posted by: GKL 7 - 05 July 2010 20:30:25
[quote=55Kab]Exactly.....the Cabrio survived for 55 years without [/quote] being lowered:roll:

Posted by: JD - 05 July 2010 23:12:59
[quote='50 Karmann]being lowered:roll: [/quote] :lol: :lol: [-x

Posted by: 55Kab - 06 July 2010 12:31:54
[quote='50 Karmann]being lowered:roll: [/quote] :lol: Left myself wide open there didn't I...

Posted by: Ivan - 06 July 2010 12:55:43
[quote=Last Triumph]Thankfully, I've got a MOT station that will 'look beyond'the lack of screen washers which is a bonus.[/quote] I have found the story of your car really interesting reading - well done! In the mid 90's I had a 1957 CKD Oval built in New Zealand after European Oval production had ceased. The car was lovely, one of my favourite Volkswagens that I have had the pleasure to own. When the work was finished on the car - I had it repainted, the original engine rebuilt, exterior chrome and trim, etc. I took it for the MoT and it would have sailed through but for the washers... It had never had any fitted. (And stubbornly, I wasn't about to drill a hole in the car!). I looked into the subject in detail and got on to the MoT inspectorate and after a lot of investigative work I found that screen washers are one of the few elements of MoT testing that have to be retro fitted if they were not standard (unlike safety belts). I still wasn't willing to drill a hole in the front scuttle - so I made it my quest to get around doing so. I got a Split Screen van washer bottle and put it in the glovebox, removed the ashtray, routed the rubber pipe through the ashtray hole and sandwiched it between the bonnet and scuttle and then gaffer taped a squirter nozzle to the scuttle. It worked fine and the tester had no option to pass it. I removed it out side the MoT station thinking how great I was to have had one over on 'them'. Now, moving on a few months... The car was my daily driver and I had to use it for my 40 mile commute from one side of Surrey to the other - this meant driving along the M25.... Trust me when it's winter you'll find out why screen washers are so essential! If you do not plan to use your car in anything other than fine weather - feel free to do like I did and beat the system. If you think for a minute you will use this car in adverse weather, you might find that drilling one hole in the scuttle could save your life...

Posted by: Ivan - 06 July 2010 15:33:49
Might be worth getting this - just in case. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=703767

Posted by: JD - 06 July 2010 15:35:53
Ivan has a good point there. One car overtakes you on a dirty winter road and the whole screen can end up plastered in about .32 of a second. Not fun!

Posted by: Ovaltine - 06 July 2010 15:46:38
[quote=JD]Ivan has a good point there. One car overtakes you on a dirty winter road and the whole screen can end up plastered in about .32 of a second. Not fun![/quote] More dangerous is left hand drive with just semaphores and bad rear vision through a tiny back window - yet this nightmare is allowed through the MOT test. You can pull over and clean you screen, but you can't be sure that there is a driver or bike youve not seen just about to smash into your right turn as he hasn't seen your semaphores or doesn't know what they are. For hell's sake they're not even mentioned in the highway code. And you're all worrying about washers. :evil:

Posted by: 64rotbox - 06 July 2010 16:16:15
Nice rant. Why did you edit the "Safer Motoring" dig out? I prefer not to have to worry about finding somewhere to pull over and arse about with cloths and rain-x every 5 minutes just to be able to see where I'm going... but I can understand why not drilling one little hole in the bodywork is more important. Actually... no, I can't.

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 06 July 2010 16:25:13
The majority of VWs imported into the UK in the 50s were dealer fitted with "Tudor" windscreen washers. I don't think that retro fitting a period set up now would in any way affect the integrity of the vehicle, but it would make a lot of sense on safety grounds... My oval has semaphores that no one sees, I drive defensively, sometimes missing turns all together if I think the chap behind hasn't seen me indicate and avoiding right hand turns wherever possible! I intend to put discrete motor bike flashers on the bumpers at some point to make driving it a little less like running the gauntlet. :wink: Mike 8)

Posted by: JD - 06 July 2010 18:56:51
[quote=Ovaltine]You can pull over and clean you screen, [/quote] Only if you can see where to stop. Hmmm.... whats more dangerous? Not being able to see forwards, or having a blind spot in the rear? Let me just think that one over.... And I fitted reversing lights to my car with orange bulbs in them, to serve as indicators, that are very big and bright.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 06 July 2010 20:10:54
Thanks for the comments. The MOT station do a lot of classics and the owner has several himself and said to me that he'd pass it without washers as he knowsthat I'd only turn up with a half cockedhome brew for the day of the test. The car will never be driven in anything other than fine, clear dry weather. As far as I'm concerned, whilst in my ownership, it will never get wet again. If itlooks like it might rain over a show weekend, I'll leave it at home. Just the way I roll. Each to their own.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 07 July 2010 02:44:35
Oh great ,i love scenarios so here is my add on to the existing story .Your driving along with some light drizzle and the lorry passes covering your screen in .32 of a second and your wipers have now smeared the mud nice and evenly .Slight panic follows as you start to slow down hoping you dont hit anything, but you've lost the road go up verge towards the shallow ditch so you try and steer back on the road but too late youve hit a telegraph pole and guess what ? You Oval doest have a seat belt ... I can get pictures to if you like. In fact i have just scared myself and will be fitting seat belts to my own car soon.Couple of deaths near us recently .one with several people in car but 16 year old girl without seat belt Dies :( and others with belt survive.Ask your local policeman for the full lecture. Mike Just found this link. its not a gory photo of a smashed VW but instead a story of how a mans life was saved because he wore a seat belt. https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/vwbeetle.htm

Posted by: Standard split - 07 July 2010 10:28:28
It you are going to use your car on a public road then you should be prepared to make it as safe as possible for other people, drivers, pedestrians and more especially cyclists (who are making the environment nicer). 8) Okay and even for motorcyclist (who really have no regard for safety or they wouldn't ride a motorcycle). :twisted: Washers could save someone else from being killed by your sweet little VW. Flashing indicators like-wise. Semaphores are fine on right-hand-drive I find though, even around London in my '58 – because I can see anyone trying to pass from behind, and I can put my arm clearly out of the window to signal AS SHOWN in the highway code! On my '52 Standard I have flashers fitted into the bumper brackets and no holes drilled. :d Seat belts I hate and never fit, and that is not going to hurt anyone else, only me and its my risk. I could also burn to a cinder trapped in a wreck by a seat belt. They also ruin and devalue a '40s - '50s VW. :evil: If you want to keep you vintage VW exactly as it left the factory, don't take it on the public road, or put it on a trailer for a show :wink: Below is the '[i]Standard Split Deluxe Windscreen Washer Device [/i]©' as fitted to my RHD '58 Semaphore Beetle London run-about. Yes it's a soap dispenser sitting on the open glove-box lid, and it sailed through the MOT like this last week :p [ATTACH]4608[/Attach]

Posted by: Last Triumph - 07 July 2010 10:56:36
All good and valid points. I won't ever be driving it in light drizzle, or have the wipers on, but that's just me. It will not see much use. I agree that a car should be made as safe as possible where safety might impact on a third party.... .... so, does this mean all early cars with cable brakes should be upgraded to hydraulic if they are ever to be used on the road? Should we all swap our cross ply tires for radials? Upgrade out electrics for brighter 12V systems? Wit wider tyres for better grip? Retro fit a large rear screen for better visability? I'm not trying to be funny, but where do you draw the line? Who decides what what is safe enough and what is not? Surely much depends on the roads the car will be driven on, the traffic and weather it will be used in and the miles it will cover. A car used daily round London in variable weather conditions is a different proposition to a car used once a month, only in the summer, just for an exercise run to keep things running, for only a few miles at a time around very quiet, raural roads in nothing but warm, bright, dry conditions? Just my thoughts - not saying any body elses opinion isn;t valid, just that there will always be a grey area of opinion and circumstance.

Posted by: 64rotbox - 07 July 2010 12:02:42
[quote=Sunroof53]Your Oval doest have a seat belt ...[/quote] Been there, done that, got the permanent facial scars to prove it. Putting a seat belt in might have "devalued" it, but it would have saved me splitting my nose open on the steering wheel, and then cutting the rest of my head as far as my ears with thousands of bits of non-laminated glass. The car ended up wrecked anyway, which "devalued" it pretty spectacularly. Ironically, I got a bloody good view of the washer nozzle during the incident... This was at 20mph, and due to a 17 year old in a Fiesta pulling out of a junction in front of me because he didn't want to be stuck behind a slow old heap, by the way, and it was the first time I'd driven the car in about 3 months (it was a nice day, so thought I'd take it out for a run). [ATTACH]4609[/Attach]

Posted by: opl505e - 07 July 2010 13:06:00
Just watched Genevieve on the telly, no seatbelt and an unrestrained St Bernard on the back seat :) What I would do andrew is source a vintage washing up bottle and attach a piece of 50's bendy tube and have it ready in your side pocket:) On the seat belts front buy a really long leather belt, make extra holes so you can wear it, but then when you get into the oval loosen the belt and slip the back of said belt over the back of the seat, tighten belt and bobs your uncle :) Wear a crash helmet, motorbike leathers, or fill the car with polystyrene (up to shoulder height) Get some clear vinyl and stick it to both sides of the windscreen voila laminated windscreen :)

Posted by: Ovaltine - 07 July 2010 15:52:08
[quote=JD]Only if you can see where to stop. Hmmm.... whats more dangerous? Not being able to see forwards, or having a blind spot in the rear? Let me just think that one over....[/quote] If I'm some poor sod coming up to pass you and you turn right, have not seen me and failed to signal clearly... now let me think...:evil:

Posted by: pre67vw - 07 July 2010 16:43:38
[quote=Ovaltine]If I'm some poor sod coming up to pass you and you turn right, have not seen me and failed to signal clearly... now let me think...:evil: [/quote] If they're passing you on a junction then they're in the wrong... There are plenty of lorries and vans with little rearward visibility, a split or oval doesn't score too badly next to some of those. I'd run seatbelts every time. My preference is to survive a crash over devaluing a car, even more so when I carry my kids. I drove the oval for quite a while with just semaphores and found it much better than expected, no problems at all at night - but even so, I still mounted some small indicators to the bumper brackets - no drilling required and easily detatchable. I fitted a 356 washer jet and made up a glass washer bottle, but didn't have to drill anything then either as it must have had one there once before. Even if you plan to only drive on nice days, you can always get caught out - especially in England. I don't see any harm in any steps to make an old car safer, I know a guy who likes everything stock who has added a disk brake conversion to the front and reckons he can stop much quicker - doesn't show unless you lie under the car. If I was driving often, I'd happily run radial tyres. Where do you stop? Wherever you feel comfortable stopping. If your happy to just look at your car in the garage then don't do anything, if you want to drive the hell out of it then do the lot. if you're inbetween then do something in the middle. :beer:

Posted by: Standard split - 07 July 2010 17:11:19
[quote=pre67vw]If they're passing you on a junction then they're in the wrong... [/quote] But that's not the case if you are turning right into a driveway, car park or other entrances :!: Seat belts are a personal choice and affect no-one else unless you have a passenger – I loathe the things, which makes my '58 a great choice over a modern plastic box for me :evil: They can be the cause of your death too – the burning car senario[-x

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 07 July 2010 17:23:51
[quote=Standard split] Seat belts are a personal choice and affect no-one else unless you have a passenger [/quote] That's not strictly true, the governments insentive for introducing and upholding the seat belt law is based on the cost of caring for victims of car crashes. Statistically, you are far less likely to be seriously injured or killed as the result of a car crash if you are wearing a seat belt. The burning car scenario is a bit of a red herring as the chances of being stuck in a burning car as the result of wearing a seat belt are far outweighed by the benefits of being protected from fatal or serious injury at the moment of impact by wearing one. The cost of caring for victims of car crashes is enormous, not just the hospitalisation, intensive care, facial reconstruction, physio, and rehabilitation but also the cost of keeping people in long term care and paying them benefits whilst they are not working - which is often for the rest of their lives. All of that has to be paid for from the public purse, which affects us all... :? Mike

Posted by: Last Triumph - 07 July 2010 18:48:46
Spent some time today under the fuel tank area cleaning and scrubbing. Can’t say it was the most exciting job in the world, but it needed to be done. Once I’d removed the master cylinder and brake lines etc, I thoroughly degreased the entire inner front end with white spirit and a tooth brush until it was ‘clean’ I then took a soft brass miniature wire brush and set to work on the 53 years of hard dried mud, muck, grime and light surface corrosion. Good thing with the brass brush is that if you’re gentle, it doesn’t remove the good paint, but removes the flaky gunk. Here are a few pics taken after it had been cleaned and brushed. Amazing how solid it is – nothing but light surface corrosion. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03335.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03344.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03349.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03342.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03354.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03351.jpg[/IMG] Here is an up close pic of the worst of it – nothing at all really! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03355.jpg[/IMG] Satisfied that the area was now clean, yet un-spoilt, I liberally coated everything in clear waxoyl. This initially has the effect of making the rust look worse than it is, but once dry, goes back to a pale patina colour. I drenched it on with a 1” brush and will do this 3 times in total. This might not be the way some people might tackle it, but I want to retain it’s originality and ‘unpainted’ status. Nothing will be covered up, nothing hidden, just protected. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03358.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03360.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03361.jpg[/IMG] I removed the brake fluid reservoir and gave the area behind the spare wheel a clean wipe over. Again, lovely and solid. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03336.jpg[/IMG] The reservoir was perfect inside, so with a sympathetic wipe over on the outside, it is good for another 53 years service. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03369.jpg[/IMG] Here it is with a new rubber cap and connection hose. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03372.jpg[/IMG] Thankfully, the hard line from the reservoir to the master cylinder was in great condition, so I just cleaned this up with some wire wool. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03373.jpg[/IMG] The same cannot be said for the original brake switch. Not only is it very grotty, it doesn’t work following a bench test. It’ll go in the original parts museum anyway. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03374.jpg[/IMG] On a lighter note, thought I’d show a picture of the original tool kit and fuel level dip stick. Amazing to have this stuff. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03379.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03380.jpg[/IMG] And finally, here is a couple of close up shots of the TDE tail pipes. The quality and finish is second to none and I highly recommend them, despite their price. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03378.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03377.jpg[/IMG] Even the end that fits onto the exhaust box has a quality machined end. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03376.jpg[/IMG] That’s it for the moment. Next job is to finish cleaning the frame head which is equally solid, then I’ll give that a couple of coats of black ‘soft’ underseal – the stuff that doesn’t set. After that, it’s in with the new master cylinder, solid lines, tank back in and finally I can get the engine running again.

Posted by: 64rotbox - 07 July 2010 20:30:40
That car just gets better and better, doesn't it? I take it you'll have the camera crew out for the first fire-up... :wink:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 07 July 2010 21:00:41
[quote=64rotbox]That car just gets better and better, doesn't it? I take it you'll have the camera crew out for the first fire-up... :wink: [/quote] It really is a great, honest, original, rot free, virgin car - I love it. Yes, I'll get the video camera out when it's fire up time. This is the one thing I'm worried about as it's an unknown quantity. Everything points to the fact that it should run, and I've been through it thoroughly, but until it runs, I'll be nervous.

Posted by: opl505e - 07 July 2010 21:45:10
If you have done all this no worries, im just imagining what I would do - It turns over by hand I presume, If it were mine it squirt some oil down the plugs then turn over by hand to get to all the rings. - When turning by hand I would do a check to see that all valves opened and closed as they should and there is no sticking of valves especially if they have valve guide oil seals as these may have turned cruddy and stick the valve. - Oil the distributor drive shaft - Plugs out and turn over until oil pressure is up and light off - Plugs in - Fire up, I would go straight to 2000rpm for 15 mins then cahage the oil. What you reckon

Posted by: Last Triumph - 07 July 2010 22:07:11
To save you recapping through the thread, this is what I have done (or will do soon) so far to aid getting it running. Checked oil - still full and clean from previous oil change (500 miles ago, 1981) New Battery, fully charged and contacts cleaned and checked. Engine cranked very well, oil light went out within 5 seconds cranking. Strip, flush and seal fuel tank. Fresh fuel with additive. All new nitrile fuel hose. Flush all solid fuel lines. New genuine fuel tap and filter. New BOSCH plugs, correctly gapped. New Beru plug leads. Rebuilt distributor with oiled shaft, new o ring etc. New BOSCH coil. New points, correct gap. Checked and cleaned original dizzy cap and rotor - excellent condition contacts etc. Fully rebuilt carb with base line settings adjusted and set. Rebuilt fuel pump. Timing set 7.5 BTDC Engine turns freely and smoothly by hamd without any mechanical 'interference' feel. Oil bath filter clean / serviced. From the above list, all that is left to do is re[fit the tank, add the fresh fuel and go for it. With all being well, and with it only having 36k miles from new, I'd hope it would at least fire? I haven't had the valve covers off, but as I say, it turns over smoothly without any mechanical interference feel.

Posted by: opl505e - 07 July 2010 22:14:41
Hope it all goes smoothly, valve stick is my only main worry but if you have turned it till the light went out all should be fine

Posted by: Last Triumph - 07 July 2010 22:56:33
Just went out to the garage as I couldn't resist doing a compression test. Lucky I did. :lol: 3 cylinders have absolutely nothing whatsoever - not even a needle flicker, and one cylinder has 25 psi - approx quarter of of what it should be. To recap, it turns over without any feeling of mechanical interference. I guess it can only be stuck rockers or valves?? My experience of these engines is limited, so can those with experience give me a quick step by step guide on what / how to check the valve train once I've got the rockers off?

Posted by: opl505e - 08 July 2010 00:23:12
Right now we're talking "flexes fingers" There are 2 Main causes of lack of compression 1st Would be the valvetrain, The camshaft lobes push the pushrods which connect to the rockers which in turn push the valves open and shut, a very reliable system when compared to belt driven cams. For a lack of compression due to valves, I would imagine one of THREE things 1. Crud in the combustion chamber and corrosion of the airtight valve seal(Corrosion of valve seating on valve or seat or both) 2. Corrosion of the valve stem resulting in valves being stuck in their open position on some of the cylinders (3 out of 4 compression test would suggest this) 3. Valve gaps non existent caused by crud OR worn out springs or seized rockers 2nd Would be deteriorated piston rings I know it would be wonderful to turn the key and off it goes but feel heads off and a thorough investigation of the heads, valves and seats and springs would be thoroughly recommended. Heads off valves out, new valves a)Seat in head examined and new seat face cut with a seat cutting tool if you have b)New valves lapped into heads c)New springs Head cleaned Camping stove and big metal container big enough for head Fill with water and loads of DAZ or AERIAL PERSIL etc Boil heads for an hour Cylinders Examine cylinder bores for obvious pitting Pistons rings may be very crudded up and not sealing Thoroughly clean check rings in cylinder and measure gap, if ok then put back Lap cylinders into heads for a nice air seal. * LAP with coarse and fine paste All back together, compression test and we're back in the room! :) Anyone else add to this? EDIT** Thought of another push rods are hollow and oil the rockers, soak them and blow them through as well as the rocker oil holes. Oil the push rods with new oil when refitting them and the rockers. Another, if you have the engine out for this check the oil pressure relief valve as this may be gunked up and not working I would have been very surprised if the engine did not have this as an issue, not a big problem at all for you as you do everything with patience [img]https://www.vwfusca.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/vw_sedan111_engine_diagram.jpg[/img]

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 08 July 2010 01:59:01
I have had plenty of these engines in the past ,some i have bought as runners and some for spares to make up a good one. One thing i have learned and this may sound obvious is you cant be sure about anything until you take it apart and check for yourself.I have bought engines with the original paint on the tin with clean low milelage looking ancillaries that look as if they've hardley run but need totally rebuilding .it can be the other way round to with oily looking engines turning out to be exellent internally. I would firstly check your compression tester on a known to be good engine ,but personally i prefer a leak down test as it gives you a more useful figure and you can pin point the leak by listening where the air is coming from.You can buy a cheap leakage tester for about £50 assuming you have a compressor . My experience has been to rebuild them from the start especially if the car has been stood .I do sympathise with you as i can see how much you want to keep it as it left the factory. Mike

Posted by: Last Triumph - 08 July 2010 08:31:40
Shame, as it's only done 36k miles. The compression tester is borrowed from work (I work for a main dealership) and is known to be working, plus it registered on one of the cylinders. I don't think it would do any harm to pull the rocker covers off with everything in situ' which may reveal the problem straight away, maybe not - then I can plan a course of action. I'm not averse to a rebuild - and would probably have done this at some point anyway in the future. This doesn't disturb it's originality as long as the block is ok. We'll see - all part of the hobby! :lol:

Posted by: opl505e - 08 July 2010 11:36:46
The block should be fine, can anyone else comment of if they think the oil galleries would potentially be crudded up, I mention this as my 1600 seized solid on the thrust bearing due to an oil starvation. Also the oil cooler may be all full of thick goo kind regards matt EDIT Im thinking previous owner bought a full gasket set so maybe it was layed off due to sticking valves, if you do take the engine out you will be in your preserving not replacing element, just so long as you keep the photos comming, deal? :wink: Also something weird is going on on ebay as I have never seen so many 30hp engines for sale before, have a look there are loads, not for you but maybe good for spares

Posted by: Ivan - 08 July 2010 13:28:50
On the subject of the awareness of drivers following you in your vintage VW - I can speak from experience here - the worst thing that has EVER happened to me whilst driving a Vintage VW was in the same Oval on my daily commute. I was coming up to Junction 8/Reigate of the M25 heading from Junction 10. Now this was in February and anyone who is familiar with this area will be able to confirm it is notorious for mist and fog. The morning in question it was foggy. When I got to Junction 8 there was a queue that went all the way up the slip road and backed up onto the inside lane. I was the last car in the queue and the tiny rear lights and left hand semaphore were obviously not enough for a driver of the articulated lorry to see until the last minute... The sound of a lorry coming towards me locked up a skidding is something I ever want to hear again - I was totally powerless - and all I could see was an Oval window full of lorry! He was able to skid round me and was still locked up as he passed me. I have never been so frightened in my life!

Posted by: Standard split - 08 July 2010 15:25:16
My most frightening experience was a car hurtling towards me on my bicycle as it rat-runned across the main road that I was cycling along, the fractions of a second measured more like minutes as it approached. My biggest shock was after the b*stard had ploughed through sending me flying one way and the bike the other, followed by my fastest journey in London – by ambulance. Maybe the best answer to all this car safety stuff is to ban the lot :evil: [ATTACH]4610[/Attach]

Posted by: Last Triumph - 08 July 2010 21:01:14
[quote=opl505e]The block should be fine, can anyone else comment of if they think the oil galleries would potentially be crudded up, I mention this as my 1600 seized solid on the thrust bearing due to an oil starvation. Also the oil cooler may be all full of thick goo kind regards matt EDIT Im thinking previous owner bought a full gasket set so maybe it was layed off due to sticking valves, if you do take the engine out you will be in your preserving not replacing element, just so long as you keep the photos comming, deal? :wink: Also something weird is going on on ebay as I have never seen so many 30hp engines for sale before, have a look there are loads, not for you but maybe good for spares[/quote] The car came with boxes and boxes of spares, mainly NOS / OEM stuff - all part of a collection, the gasket set was just one of many items bought to secure it;s long term future should parts become difficult to find. Given that the engine is low mileage and has evidence of much quality maintanence, the oil was last changed only 500 miles ago (in 1981) and that it turns over smoothly, has good oil pressure, was running when it was stored and that all the cylinders have a similar issue, I'm convinced that the engine is generically sound and just suffering from being stood. Looking at it logically, it can only be either gummed up rings or stuck / poorly seated valves. If I put a little redex or diesel etc down each plug hole and try a compression test again, if it is the rings (which I doubt) it will give me a better reading as the fluid forms a temporary seal against the bores. If it is no different, it is the valves being a little stuck. The previous owner tells me that it was turned over by hand periodically over the years, so what might have happened is that things have dried/crusted up slowly over time until one day, when it was turned over, the valves just stayed partially open or didn't seat fully. Either way, a good turn over with a healthy dose of redex won't do any harm at all, and whilst that is soaking through the rings, I'll pull the rocker covers off and see what's what with a large can of plusgas at the ready... You never know, it might not need much to revive it, or at least to get it to the point where I have 'some' compression, or enough at leat to get it running. If this is the case, the situation can only improve with more running/flushing. I only ant to get it running to the point where I can MOT and register it, then over the winter can go into much more detail both cosmetically and mechanically.

Posted by: opl505e - 08 July 2010 21:43:29
I totally agree with you that is may just free off. If however the valves are stuck is it (I don't know) possible that the pistons will hit the valves. If the valve seating is crudded up can it just clear itself. The least invasive option would be - Rocker covers off - Rockers taken off (2 nuts) - push rods out (number each one and orientation) Pushrods thoroughly cleaned, blown out and fresh oil replacing down the pushrod. - Examine the valve and springs to see that all the valves are level, if they are not level without rockers on then the valves are sticking. If the engine has never been out it may have valve guide rubbers on behind the springs. Plusgas the valve guides with rockers and pushrods on may get more movement. Fill the spark plug holes with diesel or redex, soak for a few days and then turn over engine by hand (exhaust off and heat exchanges off so they don't get diesel in them) I would'nt trust oil from 81 bad year :) :):lol:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 08 July 2010 22:02:52
[quote=opl505e]I totally agree with you that is may just free off. If however the valves are stuck is it (I don't know) possible that the pistons will hit the valves. If the valve seating is crudded up can it just clear itself. The least invasive option would be - Rocker covers off - Rockers taken off (2 nuts) - push rods out (number each one and orientation) Pushrods thoroughly cleaned, blown out and fresh oil replacing down the pushrod. - Examine the valve and springs to see that all the valves are level, if they are not level without rockers on then the valves are sticking. If the engine has never been out it may have valve guide rubbers on behind the springs. Plusgas the valve guides with rockers and pushrods on may get more movement. Fill the spark plug holes with diesel or redex, soak for a few days and then turn over engine by hand (exhaust off and heat exchanges off so they don't get diesel in them) I would'nt trust oil from 81 bad year :) :):lol: [/quote] Sound Advice

Posted by: Last Triumph - 08 July 2010 22:16:20
[quote='50 Karmann]Sound Advice[/quote] Indeed. I'd be surprised if there had been any intererance issues. As I say, it was stored in a running condition and has only been turned over by hand a few times over the years. Could just be gummed up rings? I'll do as you suggest this weekend and report back. I've got a load of new oil to put in along with NOS a strainer, gaskets etx to go in. I was only going to get it running and up to temperature on the current oil so it was hot enough to drain porperly and refill with new. I'm not worried about filling the heater boxes or exhaust with diesel etc as the exhaust is 'retired' and the heater boxes are probably 'middle aged' too! Oh, and the car just happened to come with a perfect set of genuine vintage VW original NOS heater boxes and same pedigree exhaust - the proper one with the VW logo on the end. They were nestling under the spare windscreen and all the NOS brake components in one of the boxes... which was nice! :d

Posted by: opl505e - 08 July 2010 22:42:37
Nice one Andrew, Its good to know it's in such patient capable hands, any advice is a heads up so I hope it doesn't sound like a lecture :) :) Rockers off will give you a chance to dissemble them and put them back together (quite a nice job) Just thought of it, the clutch is not stuck on is it? common on land rovers if left. Keep the pictures comming!!

Posted by: Last Triumph - 08 July 2010 23:15:02
[quote=opl505e]Nice one Andrew, Its good to know it's in such patient capable hands, any advice is a heads up so I hope it doesn't sound like a lecture :) :) Rockers off will give you a chance to dissemble them and put them back together (quite a nice job) Just thought of it, the clutch is not stuck on is it? common on land rovers if left. Keep the pictures comming!! [/quote] Thankfully, the clutch is fine. Nice light action. I tested it by rocking the car backwards and forwards in gear then depressing the clutch which resulted in the engine not turning. Big relief. Hey, I appreciate any and all comments and advice. I've been into aircooled VW's since the 80's but still consider every day a school day. Out of interest - I don't recognise your user name yet you know my first name - do we know each other on another forum, or have we met?

Posted by: opl505e - 08 July 2010 23:25:35
He he he he, thats funny I forgot I have a different name on here, its your partner in fanbelt crime FPR936E :) [img]https://shop.hoffmann-speedster.com/catalog/images/images/produkte/020/020-0063.jpg[/img] Regards Matt[img]https://www.vwkaefer.org/images/motor.gif[/img]

Posted by: Ovaltine - 09 July 2010 15:28:21
This is a great informative thread. Ive trouble viewing some of the images - or is it just me? Its got a little heavy reading with so many posts that have no connection with the recommission of the said Oval, yes a couple are mine:!:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 09 July 2010 23:12:06
Upgraded to Photoucket Pro as I'd exceeded my bandwidth and...... we're back in the room! So, moving swiftly on..... Firstly, before I start with today's discovery, I've realised that my new hobby of collecting NOS Oval parts is not the least expensive one I could have chosen, but fun never the less. My latest addition to the Oval will be a nice NOS set of points. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03381.jpg[/IMG] :) Anyway - back to the compression issues. First job was to either prove or discount the option of gummed up rings, so I bought a bottle of UCL (Redex, here in the UK)... and then tried to figure a way of getting it into the cylinders without making a mess. I thought the drinking straw on the end of a syringe was a neat idea? [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03392.jpg[/IMG] I'm not a Gynaecologist, but I'll take a good look at it for you! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03394.jpg[/IMG] After a good crank, I did another compression test, which made no difference to the three that were void, but there was a little more on the 'good' cylinder.... Nothing to have a party over, but a step in the right direction [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03403.jpg[/IMG] Next job was to pull the rocker cover off - came off quite easily to be honest and I was quite surprised at how clean everything was in there - thought it might be a lot more gunky. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03408.jpg[/IMG] And here is the offending valve gear... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03407.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03406.jpg[/IMG] GOOD NEWS - At least I know what the problem is now. I slowly cranked the engine by hand whilst watching the rocker gear move, which is awkward to say the least and requires long arms, but very soon the problem became obvious. The exhaust valves are stuck open. Simple as that. So, as it'll do no harm, I absolutely drenched the exhaust valve springs in plusgas penetrating oil in the hope that a little might make it down the valve stem. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. We'll see. I'll give this a couple of days worth of application and see if anything frees off a touch, and if not, then I'll have a look at pulling the rocker gear and off and seeing if there is a way to gently push, pull, twist or shock the valve a touch to free it off. I have to say that I'm relieved that I've at least found the problem.

Posted by: opl505e - 09 July 2010 23:56:17
Brilliant! Im loving the pictures. My observations are that the oil is a touch milky which I imagine it would be after 20 years, long and the short is its condensation water making it milky which could make the valves stick. Plusgas the heads to within an inch of their lives, with the rockers off get a wooden dowel and a mallet and try gently deflecting the valves, not sure if you can get a straight hit on them. It is a shame that there is not a tool to compress the springs in situ without pulling the engine. Out of the box thinking Coca Cola may be an option pored into the inlet and exhaust manifolds if you have an exhaust manifold plug, this or redex would get to the valve guide that can be felt down the inlet and exhaust ports. Redex first Quote from internet on coke "Yes, since Coca Cola (in it's unwatered down syrup form) is acidic enough to wash blood off pavement and even in it's normal soda state helps clean rust off steel it's definitely acidic enough to clean a coin. On a sidenote, it'll be sticky afterwards so a lil soap and water couldn't hurt too." regards Matt PS I would pull the engine and then boil everything top end in daz, look like new after, then reassemble. But that is just me A good boil got my heads from oily messes to this on my rebuild [IMG]https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/opl505e/P1030190.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/opl505e/P1030241.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/opl505e/P1030258.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: Last Triumph - 10 July 2010 00:13:42
I very well may pull the engine in the future, but in the first instance I just want to get it fired up so I can asses the overall state of play before I pull it as an unknown quantity. Also, if I can get it running initially, it will allow me to MOT / register it which I'm a little anxious to do...

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 10 July 2010 02:10:50
There is a tool that bolts to the rocker stud that enables you to remove the spring .I will post a pic tomorrow.

Posted by: Standard split - 10 July 2010 12:16:50
[i]Redex[/i] is good stuff, for sure.:beer: Once I had managed to get the stale fuel out of (hope Rob's not reading this!) [i]Rattletrap's[/i] system and eventually managed to get him to fire-up after years of standing unstarted in the museum, he run pretty poor. 2 cylinders not firing. I took the spark plugs out and poured [i]Redex[/i] into the cylinders, spun the engine the left it for a week. I started [i]Rattletrap[/i] the following weekend, he ran great (very smoky at first).8)

Posted by: ianmac - 10 July 2010 20:25:12
Firstly a very lovely and really superb find.. I had a 30hp motor which I aquired from someone and believe had been a low mile industrial engine. When I stripped the motor a couple of the valves were stuck, this didn't matter as the heads were going to be rebuilt. However I soaked the heads for ages and I ended up using heat, a large hammer and punch to remove the valves, I could not believe how stuck they were ! My point is I think you will struggle to free them up and it is likely that even if you do the valve seats will be corroded therefore the valves probably wont seat properly, you may find some of the pushrods may be slightly bent if it has been cranked over- they are real soft ! I think it would pay you to strip the motor- you made a nice job of the fuel pump and carb Just my 2 cents..8)

Posted by: ianmac - 10 July 2010 20:31:49
for your waxoyl question, I have heard that Ankor Wax is supposed to be the business: [url=https://www.morrislubricantsonline.co.uk/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=92]https://www.morrislubricantsonline.co.uk/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=92[/url] anyone else tried it ??

Posted by: opl505e - 10 July 2010 20:38:48
Nice advice ianmac :wink:

Posted by: 55Kab - 10 July 2010 21:03:04
[quote=Last Triumph]I just want to get it fired up so I can asses the overall state of play before I pull it as an unknown quantity[/quote] Exactly LT > it's an unknown quantity.....so as you know you've a problem, why not be a little patient and do it right first time now :? If it was me I'd have the engine out and the heads/barrels off before doing anything else just so you got an idea of what you're really working with. Of course if you go that far, you may as well split the case and check out what's going on in there too. Doing this would not in my view change the originality of the engine or indeed the car. PS - while the seatbelt comments were informative, glad the thread is back on topic...

Posted by: opl505e - 10 July 2010 22:21:28
I think alot of us would have been less patient than LT has been. I'm torn. Imagine you have a massive Volkswagen obsession (well we all have that) Coupled with a car that could be one of a handfull of genuine 50's VWs with a virgin engine, never been out, not even for a clutch! We would all love to hear the sound of an engine designed and put together by volkswagen in their hayday. If the engine has not been fired up since 81 what state is the engine in? With condensation over the 19 years I would expect that there would be a fare amount of water residue in the engine, this could be correct as the photo with the rocker covers off shows some white residue. If the engine has been turned over regularly for 19 years the barrels would hopefully stay lubricated enough so they don't get corrosion build up. However turning the engine over by hand would not provide the oil pump with adequate oil pressure for the oil system to be fully operational for bearings barrels and last in the chain valves and rockers. I believe that the inside of the engine is very well preserved in a film of semi liquefied waxy oil in the extremities and all parts such as barrels rockers valves. This waxy film of dried oil and water residue I believe is what is sticking the valve guides. This film is protecting all the engine parts, so long as the engine is not pushed into action. In this scenario of firing up, even if the valves have been free'd up may dump residue of this semidried oil around the oil system resulting in residue blocking main bearings from optimum oil coverage. I would guess that if the valves are sticking that the oil pressure relief valve is pretty sticky as it would not have moved in 19 years. This engine has potential Weighing everything up I would Strip the engine down totally, Get into DAZ or your washing powder of choice and a big bubbly vat of boiling water on a camping stove, have all the gleaming immaculately preserved parts put back together and to be one of the most original VW engines on earth. PS Whatever you decide is cool by me, its just very interesting, a bit like pontificating on what the inside of titannic is like now, which I kinda like and do find fun. Matt :) :) :) [img]https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5wr6jwHglmQ/SF_SdcFum_I/AAAAAAAACTc/RR4u9121XcE/s400/VW%2BBeetle%2Bfire%2Bexhaust.jpg[/img] [b]+[/b] he he he[img]https://anonymousradioshow.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/titanic-bow-railing.jpg[/img]

Posted by: Last Triumph - 10 July 2010 22:35:02
For the record, it was last driven by it's original owner in 1981, however when it was brouhg tback to the UK in 1993, it was running perfectly. The oil is still clean and the engine turns over by hand very smoothly. The oil pressure light goes out with about 10 seconds seconds cranking. It has been turned over now without plugs and a load of redex down the bores several times. Also, it is only 3 of the exhaust valves - the inles valves are all free. As one of the exhaust vales is ok, I'm of the opinion that it is only boarderline stuck. If it was a major seize up, I'd guess more would be stuck. The camera flash makes it look like there is white residue in the oil, really, there isn't - you;d have to see it with your own eyes. I hear what you say about the valves. Others elsewhere have said they can be freed with relative ease depending on how stuck they are, which I guess will vary from motor to motor. You very well may be right, but until I absolutely have to, I'm going to try everything I can to free them off first. I'm in no rush and am more patient and determined than many. Just small update as I've been at work today. I removed the rocker arms, and gave a 2nd good squirt of plusgas on the exhaust valve stems. Whether this is doing anything, I don't know, but it can't do any harm. Whilst I was waiting for it to maybe have an effect, I finished off the under-tank waxoyl job with a third and final coat. It really is very well protected now against the elements - not that it'll see many! As a final touch, I went round filling every hole, crack and crevis I could find with a 50% thinned (with white spirit) sollution so it would run and seep more easily into the nooks and crannies. Out with the trusty syringe again! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03410Large.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03411Large.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03412Large.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03413Large.jpg[/IMG] There are a load more pics of me squirting waxoyl, all over the place but they get a bit repetitive, but you get the picture. Anyway, back to the stuck exhaust valves... I make a soft brass drift to use against the end of the valve stems. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03414Large.jpg[/IMG] What I noticed is that I can;t get a straight angle with the drift on the valve and it's off by about 15-20 degrees so I'm VERY nervous about breaking something if I hit it too hard. I gave half a dozen medium taps with a hammer on the drift, but if I'm honest, nothing too medieval. How hard can I hit it without breaking something? I pressed the inlet valves with my thumb to guage how much pressure is required to depress them (quite a lot it would seem), and tried the exhaust ones, but no joy. I'm not particulaly concerned as they've not been hit hard (yet). So - is the offset angle going to be a problem, and how hard should I have to tap/hit them to 'crack' them free? :)

Posted by: opl505e - 10 July 2010 23:06:50
NICE idea with the wax injection, def. going to get some more waxoil and do my sections. I thought it would be hard to get a straight hit on the valve stems. I would not try and hit them too hard if you can't get a straight hit on them. What you need is a spare rocker and rocker shaft, then weld a lever onto the rocker so when you bolt said rocker shaft on you can lever the valves in and hopefully out. Saying that I would drop the engine as then you can follow standard workshop procedure :) if you can get in there something like this? [img]https://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/rodi_2111_210133365[/img] or this by snap on [img]https://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/658819.jpg[/img]

Posted by: Last Triumph - 10 July 2010 23:25:20
I'll probably be able to get a better angle without the drift. I've got a polyurethane headed hammer I can use. For the record guys, I'm not blindly going about this with my fingers in my ears - if I have to drop the motor, I'll drop it - no issues. But I will try every means possible within reason to avoid doing so if I can help it. It's just a case of methodically approaching it from various angles of ellimination, before that is the last resort.

Posted by: opl505e - 10 July 2010 23:34:44
HANG ON NEWS FLASH Brainwave.............maybe Pushrods in rockers on! Use rocker adjusters to push the valves in further than they are with correct gaps. Turn engine until rocker is as far in as it will go and then crack off the locknut and with a good screwdriver wind the valve in and out a tiny bit to see if that frees it. Basically using the engine to do the hard work as it is designed to and will not overstress any parts . May just crack the valve to valve guide stick mATT

Posted by: Last Triumph - 10 July 2010 23:44:16
[quote=opl505e]HANG ON NEWS FLASH Brainwave.............maybe Pushrods in rockers on! Use rocker adjusters to push the valves in further than they are with correct gaps. Turn engine until rocker is as far in as it will go and then crack off the locknut and with a good screwdriver wind the valve in and out a tiny bit to see if that frees it. Basically using the engine to do the hard work as it is designed to and will not overstress any parts . May just crack the valve to valve guide stick mATT[/quote] Great minds and all that... :lol: Any risk of bending the push rods?

Posted by: opl505e - 10 July 2010 23:48:20
So long as you don't wind it until the springs are totally compressed, you should feel the force (luke) and judge. You may get a satisfying depression of the valve and hopefully it will then come up.

Posted by: opl505e - 11 July 2010 00:01:59
If you load up the drivetrain and it doesn't move, with the load on from the rocker try a tap with that soft hammer

Posted by: Last Triumph - 11 July 2010 10:10:36
How about if I remove the pushrod (do they just pull out?) and put a small block of hard wood, plastic or similar over the empty pushrod hole as a back stop for the bottom of the rocker to lever against instead of stressing the push rod? Then, I can wind it as hard as I like without fear of bending the push rod?

Posted by: pre67vw - 11 July 2010 10:19:08
I was going to say, be careful not to bend the pushrods. I've bent them before with a high lift cam, but I'm guessing the stress at 6000rpm is more than you could apply by hand? Either way - I think the block of wood over the hole sounds like a better idea.

Posted by: opl505e - 11 July 2010 10:29:53
block of wood, good idea, are the rocker screws standard thread of metric fine, if you get a long set screw instead of the rocker adjusting screw. A good bit of hardwood

Posted by: Last Triumph - 11 July 2010 12:36:09
Do the push rods just pull out?

Posted by: opl505e - 11 July 2010 13:03:11
yes pushrods do just pull out, number them and the direction with which is the end at the rockers. I got excited there

Posted by: Last Triumph - 11 July 2010 19:28:43
Between looking after the kids, watching the Formula 1 and having dinner, I managed a couple of hours in the garage. Firstly, I wanted to make a bit more progress up front so I thoroughly degreased the frame head and bottom plate then gave it the first of two coats of black waxoyl underseal. It is the only concession I'll make in terms of 'colouring' anything, firstly because it is a little more hard wearing than the standard waxoyl, and secondly because it will come straight off with white spirit in the future should I wish to detail further or re-apply, but I know it will give excellent protection. I also fitted the NOS master cylinder after cleaning and copper slipping all the mating faces, nuts and bolts etc. Once all the hard lines are attached, I'll coat it in clear waxoyl to prevent surface oxidization. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03425Large.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03423Large.jpg[/IMG] I then tried my next idea on the stuck exhaust valves. Firstly I removed the push rod (perfectly straight for the record) and then taped together a stack of coins to act as back stop for the rocker arm to push against. The idea is that I used the power of the adjusting screw on the rocker arm to force the valve open as I screwed it in, which is a far more controlled way than hitting it with a hammer - well, it is with my hand to eye coordination anwyay... I set up the taped stack of coins over the empty push rod hole so with the adjustment screw wound all the way out there was hardly any clearance to make sure I got the maximum amount of push from the screw. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03415Large.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03418Large.jpg[/IMG] I then carefully screwed the adjuster in until it was at it's maximum travel. It turned in with a mild amount of effort all the way until the end - which was a big relief, as at least I know the valve(s) aren't seized solid. With it fully depressed, I soaked it in plusgas again, just in case, then wound it out again - then in again, out again, in again, out again etc - about a dozen times. This picture shows how depressed I managed to push the valve. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03417Large.jpg[/IMG] At this point I removed the rocker arms to assess the valve position in the hope that it was now further out and level with the inlet valve. It was not. I tried to push it in with my thumb as I can just about manage with the inlet valve, but I couldn't. Did a quick compression test to see if I'd made any difference whatsoever, but it still didn't read. So - in conclusion from today's experiment - the valves move, they are not seized solid, but are perhaps a little stiffer than normal (not a big shock) but more importantly, they as of yet are not seating correctly enough to give any compression. I'll sleep on this and pray for the midnight fairies to come and sort it out, but without any compression at all, there's no point even trying to fire it up in the hope that it will free itself up, as the empty cylinders simply won't fire. I'd try this if there was a little compression, but with none, I think I'd be wasting my time. I can see what's ahead, and if that's the ONLY way forwards, and there are no further bright ideas, then so be it - it'll be fun.....? :lol:

Posted by: opl505e - 11 July 2010 19:54:18
Shame that the valves are not returning back, maybe weakened springs. It will be equally interesting if you strip clean and build up the engine as it will not be as much a rebuild as there should be no worn parts, every item can be cleaned and put back so you will end up with where the engine was in 1981. Other possibility is there is corrosion on the part of the guide exposed in the exhaust port remember get the DAZ ready :)

Posted by: opl505e - 11 July 2010 20:12:49
Think its time to use this [img]https://dvice.com/pics/sonic_screwdriver.jpg[/img]

Posted by: Robb - 11 July 2010 20:13:46
quick question, arent you supposed to bench bleed the master cylinder before fitting?

Posted by: Last Triumph - 11 July 2010 21:20:58
[quote=opl505e]Think its time to use this [img]https://dvice.com/pics/sonic_screwdriver.jpg[/img][/quote] What is that??

Posted by: Last Triumph - 11 July 2010 21:22:58
[quote=Robb]quick question, arent you supposed to bench bleed the master cylinder before fitting?[/quote] I'll fill it up before fitting the hard lines, as it's still 'remote' from everything.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 11 July 2010 21:24:21
[quote=opl505e]Shame that the valves are not returning back, maybe weakened springs. It will be equally interesting if you strip clean and build up the engine as it will not be as much a rebuild as there should be no worn parts, every item can be cleaned and put back so you will end up with where the engine was in 1981. Other possibility is there is corrosion on the part of the guide exposed in the exhaust port remember get the DAZ ready :)[/quote] I don't think it's weak springs, as they are just as stiff, if not stiffer to compress than the others.

Posted by: Dakota - 11 July 2010 22:37:09
Hi I would suggest you pull the motor and remove the heads and do the job properly, you've tried the gentle awakening thing and it hasn't worked in this case, if you do free the valves so they move when you turn the motor by hand you may be ok but if you do have one hang open when its running at best you could bend a valve at worst you could wreck a piston and you will have to remove the heads anyway.. There is also the chance that even if it does run well you could have oil leaks from the push rod tubes from rust pinholes or mummified push rod tube seals etc. once removed you could check and replace the rings if necessary hone the bores and have the valves dressed up and seats recut etc, if you want unleaded seats or new guides BLR Engineering in Hersham SW London does an excellent job and is real value for money and you can post stuff to him if you want, Bill.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 11 July 2010 22:49:31
[quote=Dakota]Hi I would suggest you pull the motor and remove the heads and do the job properly, you've tried the gentle awakening thing and it hasn't worked in this case, if you do free the valves so they move when you turn the motor by hand you may be ok but if you do have one hang open when its running at best you could bend a valve at worst you could wreck a piston and you will have to remove the heads anyway.. There is also the chance that even if it does run well you could have oil leaks from the push rod tubes from rust pinholes or mummified push rod tube seals etc. once removed you could check and replace the rings if necessary hone the bores and have the valves dressed up and seats recut etc, if you want unleaded seats or new guides BLR Engineering in Hersham SW London does an excellent job and is real value for money and you can post stuff to him if you want, Bill.[/quote] It's looking that way.... Can anyone recommend a good (affordable) engine stand gthat is suitable for a type 1 motor? I've heard that some have a design that doesn't work well on the Beetle unit??? Hadn't thought about unleaded seats... Given my lack of experience, it is good to know that there is someone trust worthy who could do guides, and seats etc to a high standard. Let's see what happens.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 11 July 2010 22:49:54
I completely understand your determination to keep the engine factory but the clearances for valve to guide are pretty big from new ,so for a valve to stick or seize means there is more than dried up oil holding it .Removing the heads now and sorting the problem could save more of the original engine.if you run that engine with valves that are even slightly stiff and have corrosion on the stems it will destroy the guides and possibly other parts of the valvetrain.Chances are it will also be quicker .I bet you have spent more couple of hours trying to free them off and even if you do the guides will be worn within a few hundered miles.It takes even a first timer less than an hour to remove it. Sorry for the lecture but i speak from experience .Just a bit frustrating sat here whatching you trying to free off valves and knowing exactly what it going to happen after you have run it for a few hundered miles. Keep up the good work and look forward to more pictures and posts.8)

Posted by: opl505e - 11 July 2010 22:51:15
The guides should be fine, replacing them is not to be done by anyone who is not an expert, especially on ally heads BUT THEY SHOULD BE FINE. Valve seats are very hard and unless they have heavy pitting which I doubt you should be able to lap in the valves with valve grinding paste. Shopping list will be the following. 1.Gasket Set (You got that one) 2. Valve spring compressor [IMG]https://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/mg_images/valve_spring_compressor_homemade.jpg[/IMG] 3. Grinding paste [IMG]https://www.classicsagogo.co.uk/acatalog/grinding_paste_stick_sml.jpg[/IMG] 4. Seats recut only if needed (should be fine) This company are fantastic if the seats need a recut [url]https://www.hamlinsengineering.co.uk/[/url] Barrels may need a glaze bust with one of these [IMG]https://toolmonger.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/hone.jpg[/IMG] Once the head is dismantled get the boiling bubbling container of water and DAZ and boil the heads helped with a toothbrush Pistons, remove gudgeon clips and tap out gudgeon pin with a touch of heat. Decarbon pistons in the boiling daz and clean up with a feeler gauge as a usefull scraper. Rings off the pistons, probably will not need new rings but maybe a good idea. ---------------------------------------------------- If you gone this far a bottom end dismantle degunk and degrease and assembly will mean you know all the oil galleries are good to go.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 11 July 2010 23:03:51
[quote=Sunroof53]I completely understand your determination to keep the engine factory but the clearances for valve to guide are pretty big from new ,so for a valve to stick or seize means there is more than dried up oil holding it .Removing the heads now and sorting the problem could save more of the original engine.if you run that engine with valves that are even slightly stiff and have corrosion on the stems it will destroy the guides and possibly other parts of the valvetrain.Chances are it will also be quicker .I bet you have spent more couple of hours trying to free them off and even if you do the guides will be worn within a few hundered miles.It takes even a first timer less than an hour to remove it. Sorry for the lecture but i speak from experience .Just a bit frustrating sat here whatching you trying to free off valves and knowing exactly what it going to happen after you have run it for a few hundered miles. Keep up the good work and look forward to more pictures and posts.8) [/quote] To be fair - originality of things like valve guides and seats, rings and seals etc is not an issue - nor would or should it be to anyone else. It would be nice not to have to pull the engine - not from a status point of view, but more from a hassle perspective. As you rightly point out, there comes a point when you've got to look in the mirror and take a deep breath. I was in engineering in a previous life and am fortunate enough to have a good level of mechanical understanding a sympathy - it's just experience of VW engines I lack (I've plenty with small block chevys) - but I'm sure there will be lots of people to give advice along the way.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 11 July 2010 23:09:35
Sorry looks like i posted the above too late.:?

Posted by: Last Triumph - 11 July 2010 23:35:41
[quote=Sunroof53]Sorry looks like i posted the above too late.:? [/quote] Your help and support is very much appreciated :d

Posted by: opl505e - 12 July 2010 00:05:16
All of us on here will talk you through every step, it'll be like talking you down in a plane where the pilot has collapsed speaking of pilots Watch this clip I posted on vzi on a b29 bomber that was unearthed from its icy tomb https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tJb-bmgBC0

Posted by: 64rotbox - 12 July 2010 00:13:44
[img]https://skeptico.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451df0c69e20120a7b4c061970b-800wi[/img] Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffin' glue...

Posted by: Dakota - 12 July 2010 09:05:30
Hi I just have a couple of the "Clarke" type engine stands, they cost between thirty to fifty quid and stand on metal castors and have four ajustable arms on a rotating head so you can turn the engine all the way over if you want and wheel it out the way when your bored with it, you will have to find some long ten MM bolts and remove the lower mounting studs and screw the bolts in there, and space the engine clear on tubes or a fair few washers, or just stick it on a workmate or your kitchen table, Bill.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 12 July 2010 11:44:56
Decision made - Top end rebuild time. :lol: I feel like I ma doing the car and engine a good turn and protecting it for the future. As has been mentioned - I'd hate to get it running then burn or worse drop and exhasut valve in 3 months time. Once I've got the heads off - I'll report back with plenty of pictures. So, is it worth sending the heads off for unleaded seats or not? What's the general school of thought. Originality in this area is not an issue - we have unleaded fuel, so I'm happy to adapt????

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 12 July 2010 14:27:24
Here is a useful link to a how to feature for 30hp engines.Also the belated picture of the valve tool disscussed earlier and cutaway engine pic. https://picasaweb.google.com/helmsorig/36hpRebuildArticleVWTrends7981098# [center][IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Stanford%2009/30Hp%20engine/Engine30hp.jpg[/IMG][/center] [center][IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Stanford%2009/30Hp%20engine/valveremover0001.jpg[/IMG][/center]

Posted by: Ovaltine - 12 July 2010 15:55:18
Its great having all these workshop manual pages placed here, but when does copyright kick in :?

Posted by: Last Triumph - 12 July 2010 17:08:33
With today being my last day off for a while, I had some domesticities to attent to - hair cut, visit to the Doctor etc (he thinks I should pull the motor too). I was debating whether to pulll the motor, or stick to plan and finish up front first (brake lines, tank, fuel tap, fuel line, grommets etc). In the end my decision was made for me as Mrs LT decided she'd take the kids out and about. This meant I was going to be by myself. I really didnt fancy trying to remove the motor single handedly for the first time in over 20 years, as one slip and I could cause major damage. I'm sure my Dad will be more than willing to help, although I'm ready for the rant abut how high I'll need to lift the car to get it out. So, I decided to try and finish off up front. The original steel brake lines had been repaired (!!!) at some point, so there was no option but to replace them with a nice new set of Nickel/Copper ones.... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03426.jpg[/IMG] I used a normal tube bender for the larger radius curves, but for tighter radii, I made a make shift jig in the vice using a socket as a form. Why not just bend it round your thumb I hear you cry...? Sorry, just cant help myselft sometimes! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03430.jpg[/IMG] After far more faffing about that I'd anticipated, the new hard lines where formed and in place, along with the original low pressure master cylinder fluid feed pipe. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03428.jpg[/IMG] One might argue that the lengths of tube supplied in the kit are a little on the long side, hence the imaginative bends here and there, but I'm more than please with the way it now looks. Because the long front to back brake line is in very good condition, I am in no immediate rush to replace it (although a new one was in the kit and I might well replace it anyway) but I really struggled to get the thread of the fitting into the hole on the master cylinder. I fiddled around for ages trying the get the threads started, desparately trying not to cross them, but with no joy. I tried one of the old fittings in the new cylinder to make sure the threads are the same (which they are) but dspite all my wiggling and jiggling and trying from every possible variation of angle, I couldn't get them started, so I have to assume the first thread on the fitting is slightly damaged, as I checked the cylinder and an old loose fitting went in first time. I'll wait until my Dad gets back from holiday and scrounge one of his thread dies to clear it out. No major issue but it kind of halted progress. With time on my side, I decided to have a sweep and vac of the spare wheel compartment to make sure it is as solid as I remembered from when I first saw the car. After a quick tydy up, I was not disappointed! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03434.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03435.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03436.jpg[/IMG] Like the rest of the car, absolutely solid as a rock, and a real joy to behold. Of course I couldn't just leave it like that, so I drenched it in waxoyl to preserve for the future. The waxoyl 'wets up' the surface rust and makes it look worse than it is, but I'm happy in the knowledge that it is well protected. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03439.jpg[/IMG] Until I can get the threads clear on the brake line fitting, and until I've a helper to assist in the engine removal, that's about it for now, other than when I removed my gloves, I noticed I'd sliced my thumb open on something.... but no idea what? :lol: [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03438.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: Last Triumph - 12 July 2010 23:57:26
Once the kids were safely tucked up in bed, I had a visit from the progress police who ordered me out into the garage.... just for a quick poke and prod you see.... Decided to pull the engine. Some observations..... 1) The engine has indeed never been out - I had to use tonnes of squirty brake cleaner and a tooth brush just to be able to find the bolts, which when I eventually did find them had all virgin flanks - untouched. 2) I guess you don't need heaters in Portugal - the heater cable has already snapped long ago at the heater box control valve, so that was one less process. 3) Either VW assembled this car only finger tight, or Plusgas penetrating fluid is absolutely amazing stuff. I say finger tight - not quite, things needed a good effort, but they all cracked free and nothing seized which was a big relief. 4) I need taller axle stands! :lol: 5) Mrs LT is a great helper 6) Could they make the engine / engine bay / gaerbox input shaft a tighter fit? 7) When you release the oil strainer plate, the oil comes out faster than the usual 14mm drain plug on a normal sump! :lol: [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03440.jpg[/IMG] As you can see, I drained the oil first! I guess most of us know the engine removal sequence isn't anything complicated, so thankfull there aren't any dull pictures of spanners on bolst etc, plus my hands were far too dirty for the digital camera. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03443.jpg[/IMG] Ok, a fair bit of 'manouvering' to get the clutch clear of the input shaft whilst the pulleys were tight up against the rubber seal on the inside of the valance, but slowly, bit by bit, down she came. And it soon became apparent that my axle stands are woefully short of the mark, so at this point, with the motor effectively out and free, I called it a day. There are some bricks / wood either side of the jack just to steady it in the mean time. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03444.jpg[/IMG] And that is how it was left. I'll get some taller axle stands and maybe remove the fan housing, inlet manifold etc then it should pull clear. No going back now. Time for a beer (another one)! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03445.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: pre67vw - 13 July 2010 00:13:07
Quick work! I'm enjoying this thread, keep it coming!!

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 13 July 2010 09:49:41
[quote=pre67vw]Quick work! I'm enjoying this thread, keep it coming!![/quote] x 2 definitely the most interesting thread on here at the moment. Keep it up! Mike :d

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 13 July 2010 16:09:22
Great work !,cant wait to see the teardown! They are a tight fit and i find leaving the exhaust off helps when you refit.I have been waiting for a chance to post these scans from an original workshop manual ,so hope you dont mind but i love these colorised pics.I will straighten them up sometime when i get photoshop sorted Rob,any chance we can have a picture gallery for useful pics and scans ?or have i missed it somwhere :? [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Engine30hp600.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Engine30hp600a.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: Last Triumph - 13 July 2010 22:46:27
What's this? - Garage time on a school night? One of the major advantages of working for a large main dealer, is that I get to borrow some hardware from time to time. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03446.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03451.jpg[/IMG] That's more like it! With some chassis saving padding on the jack pad, up she went.... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03450.jpg[/IMG] Success! - straight out! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03448.jpg[/IMG] And here it is - all ready for some love! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03452.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03453.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03454.jpg[/IMG] Can't wait to get stuck in.....

Posted by: cupa65 - 14 July 2010 00:24:46
Hi I know you are engrossed in the engine strip down and rebuild, but if you want to preserve the patina on the car try Techtyl spray on wax. I've use some on my OG paint 65 and its 10 x better than Waxoyl. It comes as a amber semi transparent wax or black wax. I used it in amber form for under the tank and front beam etc and black on the floor pan. Once dry its a bit like shoe polish, but it forms a good barrier against water and corrosion it is manufactured by Valvoline. The codes are amber wax Techtyl 506 and the black wax is called Bodysafe. try it you'll be impressed!! Cheers

Posted by: 64rotbox - 14 July 2010 00:25:13
Good grief, that's rather a raggy old looking jack isn't it? My word, is that what they use in posh car dealerships these days? I'd have been straight round to that new Peugeot dealers next door, I bet they've got some nice shiny ones in there... :beer:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 14 July 2010 08:19:33
[quote=64rotbox]Good grief, that's rather a raggy old looking jack isn't it? My word, is that what they use in posh car dealerships these days? I'd have been straight round to that new Peugeot dealers next door, I bet they've got some nice shiny ones in there... :beer: [/quote] It was an old unused one sleeping in the tyre bay. The workshop is kitted out with state of the art ramps :wink:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 14 July 2010 08:22:39
[quote=cupa65]Hi I know you are engrossed in the engine strip down and rebuild, but if you want to preserve the patina on the car try Techtyl spray on wax. I've use some on my OG paint 65 and its 10 x better than Waxoyl. It comes as a amber semi transparent wax or black wax. I used it in amber form for under the tank and front beam etc and black on the floor pan. Once dry its a bit like shoe polish, but it forms a good barrier against water and corrosion it is manufactured by Valvoline. The codes are amber wax Techtyl 506 and the black wax is called Bodysafe. try it you'll be impressed!! Cheers [/quote] Thanks, I'll investigate. I use waxoyl as firstly I've got loads of it, and secondly it comes off so easily with white spirit. The car will never get wet, so I just wanted a light coat of something to keep moisture and humidity out. The garage is heated.

Posted by: cupa65 - 14 July 2010 14:42:00
Hi You can get Techtyl off with white spirit. I have a can with about 30% left in. If you send me an address I will post it to you. Just imagine it's a lovely sunny day the sun is shining so you set off for a drive. The weather suddenly changes and there is a massive thunder storm.............thanks heavens for Techtyl! Perhaps for security I could send it to your place of work. You never know who may be reading. Cheers

Posted by: 64rotbox - 14 July 2010 15:13:34
[quote=Last Triumph]It was an old unused one sleeping in the tyre bay. The workshop is kitted out with state of the art ramps :wink: [/quote] Puh. I bet the Peugeot ramps are bigger and shinier, and probably play a little fanfare when they reach maximum lift. (They'd have to be really, as they'll be working non bloody stop if the amount of broken Pugs I see is anything to go by...)

Posted by: Last Triumph - 14 July 2010 21:26:13
[quote=cupa65]Hi You can get Techtyl off with white spirit. I have a can with about 30% left in. If you send me an address I will post it to you. Just imagine it's a lovely sunny day the sun is shining so you set off for a drive. The weather suddenly changes and there is a massive thunder storm.............thanks heavens for Techtyl! Perhaps for security I could send it to your place of work. You never know who may be reading. Cheers[/quote] That's very kind of you, thanks. Is there a 'pm' facility on this site so I can send you my address?

Posted by: 55Kab - 14 July 2010 21:56:22
[quote=Last Triumph]Can't wait to get stuck in.....[/quote] I can't wait for you to get stuck in..... :wink: Well done LT, this is the right way to go. Going to be interesting to see the condition of the heads and barrels once it's all stripped down.

Posted by: mrsherbie - 15 July 2010 11:08:46
Ive been away and entirely missed your new car! Its absolutely wonderful! Congratulations, proof that good things come to those with patience. :beer: Except now you are all talking engine, so thats me out. :lol:

Posted by: pre67vw - 15 July 2010 12:48:13
[quote=Last Triumph] Is there a 'pm' facility on this site so I can send you my address?[/quote] Yes! Under each post is a PM button - you can also pm from the users profile page.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 19 July 2010 22:25:29
[quote=cupa65]Hi You can get Techtyl off with white spirit. I have a can with about 30% left in. If you send me an address I will post it to you. Just imagine it's a lovely sunny day the sun is shining so you set off for a drive. The weather suddenly changes and there is a massive thunder storm.............thanks heavens for Techtyl! Perhaps for security I could send it to your place of work. You never know who may be reading. Cheers[/quote] Arrived today - many, many thanks. I've sprayed a bit on a wing to assess it's properties and will report back. From what I see, it looks good stuff, and I reckon it'd be ideal for the floor pan (inside and out), especially underneath, and on all the hidden areas like the inside of the body mounts, under the luggage tray, engine side trays, inside the rear valance etc, etc. Where is the best place to buy it from? How would it compare to dinitrol 3125 which is clear in colour and a bit thinner?? On another note, I ordered the empi engine stand to assist in the rebuild process. If it arrives soon, I'll be able to start the tear down this week. I've got an oil drum that I'll cut the bottom third off to use as a boiling pot to clean all the components is, as I can put a camping stove underneath it and boil away to my hearts content. Regarding washing powder - is there a preferred brand to use? Biological or non-bio? Is it worth adding some other soaps and degreasers for good measure and just boiling it up in a witches brew? Any risk of corrosion to the magnezium case or alluminium heads with the washing powder? is it caustic in any way? Advice from anyone who has done this will help? Cheers for now.

Posted by: cupa65 - 21 July 2010 13:50:42
hi Glad you're happy with the outcome. Seems it was designed to give protection to all types of machinery and not just cars. It available from Valvolines Distributor 01542 832465 cheers

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 21 July 2010 17:55:21
I put a case in a dishwasher once and although it cleaned up fairly well the case lost its grey/gold appearance because dishwash tablets are caustic.If you want to keep its appearance as it is, i would just use a solvent.Also it made a right mess of the dishwasher and spent a long time cleaning it before the missius got home :oops: Looking forward to the rebuild :lol:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 21 July 2010 21:34:14
With a rare day off, I hit the garage again with the aim to get organized for the engine rebuild. Seeing it sat there on the garage floor was just too tempting, so I did a quick supermarket sweep around the garage and with an arm full of tools, began to remove stuff… Firstly I needed to remove the exhaust and heater boxes. My new best friend is plusgas – I cannot put in to words how wonderful this stuff is. I gave the exhaust studs a quick squirt the other day, and another go last night, and all 8 nuts came off without incident. In fact, every single fastener on the entire engine came off perfectly thanks to this stuff. Two of the studs came out the head, which is no problem and far better than them snapping, that’s for sure! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03501.jpg[/IMG] I was very impressed with the condition of the heater boxes – no rot through anywhere and just need a good clean up and rebuild. I’ll still fit the NOS ones though and keep these for spares. The lower tinware came off no problem – I always wanted to know how it all worked in there… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03502.jpg[/IMG] At this point it became blindingly obvious that it was a good idea to pull the motor, as the crud in the ports and all the cooling finds was extensive. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03499.jpg[/IMG] I then removed the inlet manifold, generator and fan housing, oil cooler and the rest of the tinware etc. Check out how much the cooling would have been impeded with all that gunk! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03495.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03506.jpg[/IMG] And then the clutch came off. No idea what this is supposed to look like, but from what I can see, it looks like a decent unit with plenty of meat left on the bone. I might replace it with a new one anyway. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03507.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03508.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03509.jpg[/IMG] At this point, I had a delivery of my new Empi engine stand! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03497.jpg[/IMG] On my way back to the garage, I noticed it was getting a little crowded in parts! Very unlike me, but what the hell, I was having a great time. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03505.jpg[/IMG] So….. the moment of truth – off with the heads! But before I did, I removed the rockers and pushrods, making sure I kept a note of which one went were etc. I guess I now know why there was no compression on three of the cylinders now! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03515.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03517.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03514.jpg[/IMG] Yup – stuck exhaust valves. The pistons and cylinders on the face of it, whilst coated in plenty of crusty carbon etc, actually look pretty good. The cylinders are obviously full of all the redex etc I poured into them, but there are no immediate issues jumping out at me, although I’ll have a better idea of their condition once I pull them apart and clean them properly. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03518.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03520.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03519.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03521.jpg[/IMG] Then out came one of my favourite tools ever – the torque master! Gland nut? Piece of cake – highly recommended. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03522.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03524.jpg[/IMG] At this point I was starting to run out of space, so had to kerb my enthusiasm and get a bit of order back into the equation. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03513.jpg[/IMG] I assembled some shelving to keep the parts in a safe and orderly fashion. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03525.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03526.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03530.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03529.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03527.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03528.jpg[/IMG] And finally, I set up the motor mount on the bench, which I duly reinforced somewhat to ensure it was solidly mounted. This is where I’ll be spending many an hour in the weeks to come I’m sure. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03533.jpg[/IMG] Not bad for one day…..

Posted by: 55Kab - 21 July 2010 21:59:17
^^^ Very good LT, so glad you decided to do this. Got to say as you got this far, I think it's worth splitting the case to see what the condition of everything else is like.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 21 July 2010 22:43:13
[quote=55Kab]^^^ Very good LT, so glad you decided to do this. Got to say as you got this far, I think it's worth splitting the case to see what the condition of everything else is like. [/quote] Don't worry, it's getting the full hit - even if it's just to clean out the crud and check everything. If it had run, I think it wouldn't have done it much good - all the junk in there, the sludge, the blocked cooling fins etc - not good. I guess the stars are aligned for me at the moment!

Posted by: Last Triumph - 21 July 2010 22:47:06
[quote=Sunroof53]I put a case in a dishwasher once and although it cleaned up fairly well the case lost its grey/gold appearance because dishwash tablets are caustic.If you want to keep its appearance as it is, i would just use a solvent.Also it made a right mess of the dishwasher and spent a long time cleaning it before the missius got home :oops: Looking forward to the rebuild :lol: [/quote] I've aquired an oil drum which I'll cut the top off and them moount on brincks with a camping stove underneath. I'll find a non caustic washing powder and mix it with a load of general degreaser etc then boil everything for an hour or so. Is there anything that I shouldn't do this to? I was intending to dump the lot in there...

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 21 July 2010 23:06:39
[quote=Last Triumph] Is there anything that I shouldn't do this to? I was intending to dump the lot in there...[/quote] Dont boil the case at high temperature after you have split it.There is a chance it will warp.Maybe 30-40 deg .If you can bolt it back together and let it heat and cool gradually.You wont like doing it but i strongly recommend you pull the plugs on the oil gallerys as you cannot clean them properly without.Even when you are washing it some crud can enter the galleries or loosen off and be impossible to get out.I can post some info on how to do it but i would recommend getting a machine shop to do it foe you. keep up the good work :d Mike.

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 21 July 2010 23:19:22
Great work Andy, but what a filthy engine!! Definitely worth stripping it right the way down to see what you have.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 21 July 2010 23:26:43
[quote=Rich Oakley]Great work Andy, but what a filthy engine!! Definitely worth stripping it right the way down to see what you have.[/quote] Agreed. Rich, have you any experience with cleaning or boiling engine components?

Posted by: Last Triumph - 21 July 2010 23:39:10
[quote=Sunroof53]Dont boil the case at high temperature after you have split it.There is a chance it will warp. [/quote] Average 'normal zone' on a car oil temp guage seems to be 220-240 deg F which is over 100 deg C. I know aircooled engines run a bit hotter than a normal engine, so I'd have thought that boiling it at 100deg C would be just like a slightly cooler than normal opperating temp...? I'm open to be correctdd though - just my logic ticking away.

Posted by: tman - 22 July 2010 00:55:12
Looks like you definitely dodged a bullet when you decided to dismantle this engine. :beer: Pete from Cogbox has a big cleaning tank under cover outside his workshop. I don't remember much about it but it was electrically powered, whether that was for a heater or a circulation pump or both I couldn't tell you. It didn't smell like it was full of detergent as far as I can remember. He likes rescuing old 30hp engines and I'm sure that if you rang him he'd be happy to explain his cleaning process.

Posted by: 55Kab - 22 July 2010 07:39:20
[quote=Last Triumph]If it had run, I think it wouldn't have done it much good - all the junk in there, the sludge, the blocked cooling fins etc - not good[/quote] Exactly the reason a few of us were urging you to remove it, even though you seemed very keen not too...:!: :wink: Looking forward to seeing the internals, I bet there'll be a fair bit of "crud" in the case oil journals.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 22 July 2010 09:31:12
[quote=Last Triumph]Average 'normal zone' on a car oil temp guage seems to be 220-240 deg F which is over 100 deg C. I know aircooled engines run a bit hotter than a normal engine, so I'd have thought that boiling it at 100deg C would be just like a slightly cooler than normal opperating temp...? I'm open to be correctdd though - just my logic ticking away. [/quote] What I was trying to say was once the case is split not to boil it.if you want to boil it at operating tempurature make sure you have the case halts bolted back together.bolting together will prevent it warping.I don't mean with the crank and cam inside , just the case halfs together.it's just a precaution as castings do strange things when you heat them.don't ask how I know ! Writing from mobile so excuse lack of punctuation and smilies

Posted by: opl505e - 22 July 2010 16:08:42
good work, was wondering what was going on boiling is good for engine and hands

Posted by: Last Triumph - 23 July 2010 01:05:09
Bit more progress tonight.... First job was to remove the crank pulley which the manuals and books claim sometimes comes off in your hands and other times requires a puller.... Well, it didn't come off in my hands - so borrowed yet more tools from my preferred free of charge tool rental source AKA Dad! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03567.jpg[/IMG] And this didn't work either! To be fair, the puller was at the absolute limit of it's size and as soon as it started to flex the pulley I decided to leave it for another day when I'll make a more suitable puller. No big issue. Gave it a squirt of plusgas though just in case... I then turned my attention to the barrels and pistons. Before you can remove them, you need to remove a couple of baffels that looked alot cleaner in the Bentley manual. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03566.jpg[/IMG] The barrls should then just slide off...... yeah, whatever.... Once I'd removed a load of the gummy, gunky glue around the studs etc, and with a load of plusgas, they eventually came off after a lot of gentle wiggling and persuasion. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03568.jpg[/IMG] Next up was to remove the pistons. The pistons connect to the rods with a wrist pin that is held in place with two spring clips that need to be removed first. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03570.jpg[/IMG] The wrist pins then need to be pushed out the side of the piston. Let me tell you that this isn't something you do with your thumb! Having never done this before, I wasn't sure how much force was required to remove them, but according to the manuals and books, they need knocking out with a drift. Not knowing how much force the rods and crank can withstand I went at it very gently at first and got nowhere fast. I was surprised at how much force is required to get them out, but with lots of smaller taps, rather than heavy whacks, slowly but surely they came out, one by one. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03571.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03572.jpg[/IMG] I've kept everything in the exact same order and orientation as they came out. Not surehow important this is, but have done it none the less as it can't do it any harm. I was now left with this.... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03573.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03574.jpg[/IMG] The flash bulb on the camera makes everything look orange and rusty - it's not, it's just an oily coating that looks orange. Jeez the motor is filthy. Which brings me to how I'm going to clean everything. I've been thinking about hot washes, boiling baths, washing powder etc, etc and whilst some have done this with success, I'm not going to do this. I've been advised by more than one source that a good initial soak in parafin and a going over with a stiff brush will do wonders on the first round of cleaning. Once everything is 'clean', I can then get in there with air lines and finer solvents in the later stages of the cleaning process. We'll see. I guess the stars were aligned again, as next thing I know, and thanks to my 'aviation contact' I've got 25 litres of gas turbine jet fuel in my garage which is like parafin, only much better! Result! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03575.jpg[/IMG] And that's where I left it, but to finish off, here's a shot taken from the garden to remind me of what all the effort is for... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03578.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: 59 Ragtop - 23 July 2010 21:45:15
Great work. :d

Posted by: opl505e - 24 July 2010 19:01:19
Just got 2 rather sexy smooth V-Belts in the post!!!! Look the dogs b*****ks proper V-Belt. Ill fit them after I fix todays nightmare, central tunnel front bush has ripped off its tunnel mount, luckily the car limped out of St pauls in bristol where I was showing girlfriend the roughest part of the city, I laughed and said you don't want to break down here and nearly did!! Got from Bristol to Exeter devon all in 4th gear. Anyone got a pic of the tunnel without the bottom plate on?? Will let you know the fit of the belts which are true 9.5 x 905 smooth belts

Posted by: Last Triumph - 24 July 2010 23:37:23
I'll take rmy successes in whatever size box they come in, and today's was a tiddler. Family duties meant that I didn't get into the garage until mid afternoon where I spent a frustrating couple of hours trying to get the crank pulley off. I tired all the usual tricks - heat, pulsgas, pry bars etc and eventually made my own two jaw puller. . . which broke. . . twice. I make hooks to go through the square holes in the pully out of threaded bar, and they snapped unter the tension! This thing really was on tight, so I decided to leave it a while and clean the outside of the case instead. Nothiong too clinical, but enough to make the initial jet fuel bath more effective - white spirit and a tooth brush. Looks a lot better now. Once I'd finished, I decided to make another puller for the crank pulley, but this time a lot more heavy duty. Amazed at how much force it took to remove, but was relieved when it finally gave way and came free. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03583.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03584.jpg[/IMG] Cleaning the case was a messy, but satisfying job. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03582.jpg[/IMG] Next up I loosened all the case bolts. I undid them all a little at a time to prevent any undue stress on the case. Needn't have worried, it's stuck solid. Why am I not surprised. :lol: Here it is, clean(ish), bolts loose and ready to be split appart. At this point my dinner was on the tale and by the time the kids had gone to bed, I washed up and called it quits. Not much but a step closer. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03580.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03581.jpg[/IMG] Next up - split the case. . . any clues on how to break the seal open?

Posted by: JD - 24 July 2010 23:45:21
Nice work LT.:beer:

Posted by: cupa65 - 25 July 2010 00:02:39
Hi You must have loads of patience( i have very little) to continually be taking pics at every stage. When I did the 65 all i could think of was getting the job done! My photography took place just before I left for work at 7:45am. I must post my full rebuild process as I have loads of pics at all stages. Keep up the good work Cheers Ps the Techtyl is excellent to add Patina back to your engine, especially carbs as it looks like old fuel.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 25 July 2010 11:07:09
[quote=cupa65]Hi You must have loads of patience( i have very little) to continually be taking pics at every stage. When I did the 65 all i could think of was getting the job done! My photography took place just before I left for work at 7:45am. I must post my full rebuild process as I have loads of pics at all stages. Keep up the good work Cheers Ps the Techtyl is excellent to add Patina back to your engine, especially carbs as it looks like old fuel.[/quote] Am I over doing it on the pics? I always love threads with lots of pics - makes them more interesting to read. Hopefully they will provide help or guidence to a newbie one day?

Posted by: opl505e - 25 July 2010 11:19:51
Word of warning after my shift rod seizure, After waxing the central tunnel make sure you thoroughly de-wax the shift rod, I didnt and as a result the shift hanger broke off when it seized, tunnel has to be cut into to get at the hanger

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 25 July 2010 11:53:05
[quote=Last Triumph]Am I over doing it on the pics? [/quote] No! I love this thread and the pics really make it. I study each one intently and as you say, it'll be a great reference in the future for people (not just newbies) carrying out similar work. Keep it up! :wink: Mike

Posted by: cupa65 - 25 July 2010 13:21:42
Hi All What we all need is an artistic director.May even be able to get some sponsership....'Snap On?" Keep up with the pics, I find it interesting too. Cheers

Posted by: GKL 7 - 25 July 2010 13:51:05
[quote=Last Triumph]Am I over doing it on the pics? [/quote] What a very excellent thread,pictures are great...don't stop. You really are a very quick worker,really suprising how quickly you are progessing that and doing an excellent job as you go along. Must be that Wirral air.

Posted by: opl505e - 25 July 2010 15:38:54
Finished redoing the tunnel disaster, will never break again. Put my 9.5x905 belt on, fits perfectly with the full 10 shims on the inside LT mail me on [email protected] a good addition to your braded fuel pipe,my advice get a half dozen and go from there

Posted by: Last Triumph - 25 July 2010 21:31:49
And a few more hours in the garage this afternoon.... I wanted to pull the oil pump before I tried to split the case so modifiled my home made crank pulley puller to act as an oil pump puller. I must admit, I love making my own tools, despite them being a bit rough round the edges. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03585Large.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03586Large.jpg[/IMG] The back of the oil pump for those who want to know what it looks like... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03587Large.jpg[/IMG] I double checked and tripple checked that I'd removed all the fasteners before trying to split the case. Using a block of wood on some of the overhanging case tabs here and there I gently tapped whilst pulling on the generator stand and it slowly began to split. Result! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03588Large.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03590Large.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03589Large.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03599Large.jpg[/IMG] I carefully liften out the crank, cam, pushrod guides etc and rested them on the bench. On the initial quick glance inspection, I'm delighted at the condition of everything in there. There is very little sludge or debris, and the cam, crank, bearings etc look fantastic which supports the low mileage and regular maintenance. Obviously I'll need to clean and strip further and mic everything up etc, but so far, I'm wedll pleased. A milestone has been reached. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03592Large.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03593Large.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03594Large.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: opl505e - 26 July 2010 15:51:25
Looking good, the rear thrust bearing should be a nice TIGHT fit in the case or the bearing will start to move after the rebuild (My first mistake).

Posted by: Last Triumph - 26 July 2010 19:12:14
[quote=opl505e]Looking good, the rear thrust bearing should be a nice TIGHT fit in the case or the bearing will start to move after the rebuild (My first mistake). [/quote] It certainly was - it brought the crank up with the case half when I lifted it off! Today was inspection day to assess the general condition of the engine. I was not disappointed! Firstly, I dumped the pistons and cylinders in a bucket of jet fuel to gauge its performance – it’s not a boiling vat of acetone that’s for sure, but it does soften the crud so that a tooth brush removes all but the stubborn carbon deposits on the piston crown. I’ll leave them overnight and check tomorrow what affect it has. I can see plenty of brake cleaner still being used though. We’ll start with the dullest picture first… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03600.jpg[/IMG] Just before I removed the rods, I checked the rod side clearance at between 0.25mm and 0.30 from rod to rod which is well within the tolerances of new parts and a sign of things to come… I removed the rods and made a note of what bearing came off which rod, identifying them by the stamped rod number, and also what rod came from which journal etc. In work, my business cards come in little clear plastic boxes, I always new they’d come in handy one day so collected a load of them from my colleagues to use as component trays. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03620.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03621.jpg[/IMG] Here, I noted which wrist pin came from which piston and in what orientation along with the retaining clips. Sad, I know… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03616.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03619.jpg[/IMG] The crank laid almost naked for the first time in 53 years. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03622.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03640.jpg[/IMG] I was now able to use my (Dads) digital vernier to check various bearing and journal sizes. No1 main journal and bearing… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03638.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03635.jpg[/IMG] This gives a clearance of 0.08mm. The Bentley manual says the tolerance gap for new parts is 0.047mm to 0.102mm with a maximum wear limit of 0.19mm which means I’m bang in the middle of what new parts should be. What a result! I did check all the journals and bearing for ovality too and everything was as near as perfect as you could ask for. Same for the No 4 journal and bearing…. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03641Large.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03636.jpg[/IMG] A clearance of 0.08mm against new part figures of 0.031 to 0.83mm with a maximum wear limit of 0.17mm so again, within the tolerance of new parts. I measured the remaining main bearing journals and they are exactly the same and without any evidence of scoring excessive wear or other damage. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03633.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03624.jpg[/IMG] I then inspected the condition of the big end bearings and rods internals and was again, pleasantly surprised at how little wear is evident. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03628.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03631.jpg[/IMG] Please forgive me but…. My crank ROCKS !!! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03609.jpg[/IMG] Sorry, couldn’t resist. At this point, I’m over the moon with what I’ve found internally. The car has only 36,000 miles on it with evidence of frequent oil changes and this certainly shows to be the case judging by how fresh everything is. I have decided that due to the low mileage and total originality of the motor, and on how little use it will get when on the road, on this occasion, I’m going to reassemble it will all the original components, albeit, checked and thoroughly cleaned. I had a similar look at the cam, which is spot on, even the piston ring gaps are like new. I’ll check and double check again of course, but other than the valves etc, this is one lovely motor and I see no reason to throw parts at it when the ones it currently has are within new part tolerances. The next few days are going to be spent cleaning, cleaning and more cleaning…. Joy.

Posted by: opl505e - 26 July 2010 19:56:20
NICE, would look the dogs with a nice Optibelt fanbelt on it...... I agree everything looks in A1 condition. You got the oil pressure relief valve and spring out yet? A good jetwash through the oil galleries is my preferred way to check there is no debris in the passages of the case

Posted by: Last Triumph - 26 July 2010 20:21:36
Once everything has had the top coating of crud removed from the jet fuel bath and a good scrub with stiff brushes etc, I'll get in there with brake cleaner. The brake cleaner breaks down oil and sludge almost instantly. I bought a new high pressure blow gun, so what I'll do is blow out all the oil galleries, then fill them with brake cleaner - leave to soak a while, then blow them out with the air line again, then repeat the process over and over again until a white cloth stays while at the other end of the galleries.

Posted by: ianmac - 26 July 2010 21:11:02
really good thread, glad you stripped the motor. In my opinion it is worth drilling out the little alloy plugs at the end of the oil galleries in order to brush through with a small rifle brush. You can then drill, tap and fit removable plugs to reclose the galleries. I really do think this is worth doing, but this is just my opinion :d good luck, its looking good8)

Posted by: cupa65 - 26 July 2010 21:27:53
Hi Are they the same trainers as seen in "episode 1 bringing the car home"?? I have just bought some NOS Adidas Super Star 2's from Trainer Station:d Cheers

Posted by: Last Triumph - 26 July 2010 21:36:08
[quote=cupa65]Hi Are they the same trainers as seen in "episode 1 bringing the car home"?? I have just bought some NOS Adidas Super Star 2's from Trainer Station:d Cheers[/quote] Sure are! A VERY old pair of Nike Air Max with holes so big in the toes, I can almost put them on the wrong way round by mistake! Can't afford shoes up north, you see....

Posted by: Dakota - 26 July 2010 23:41:52
Hi you might try a little heat next time you want to remove/refit the gudgeon pins or crank pulley etc, if you warm the pistons using a hot air paint stripping gun or similar the pins should move with just finger pressure, you don't really want to be tapping them out as the rods are a bit on the flimsey side, a little heat goes a long way, and I would probably go with cleaning the galleries out as opposed to pulling the plugs, unless the motor had suffered a shredded bearing and was full of little glittery bits of metal, I take it the oil cooler will be cleaned to death too, any ideas where all the crud came from, did it have a leaky cooler and live down a dusty farm track?

Posted by: Last Triumph - 27 July 2010 01:40:21
[quote=Dakota] did it have a leaky cooler and live down a dusty farm track?[/quote] Pretty much, yes. Just been checking the pistons and cylinders for roundness and clearance, but I'm finding it difficult to get accurate measurements - one minute they're near perfect, next they're miles out. Very tricky trying to measure them with verniers. Things look fine around the skirt, but it's less clear at the top of the piston near the crown. The manuals don't say where to take measurements from but mention that the piston is slightly tapered towards the skirt getting wider as it moves away from the crown to improve piston stability. My measurements confirm this, however, at what position up the piston do you take your measurements for checking clearance? Logic tells me to take them from round the skirt, as the clearance gap is fairly small to start with, and if this was the gap at the grown, the taper would effectively mean that it would be an interferance fit at the skirt which can't be right? Does that make sense? Or am I being too anal about it?

Posted by: Dakota - 27 July 2010 09:46:36
Hi dont worry too much about the pistons providing they havn't picked up in the bore due to overheating (heavily scored skirts) and are not too scratched scored etc from crap getting in via the carb, and of couse the top ring clearance, so find a new ring and see if it moves up and down in the groove too much, I think it should be five or six thou but I may be wrong, its the top groove that takes the beating, so stick a new ring in and see what feeler guage will fit in , as for bore wear you really need a proper bore guage, though if you have a step at the top of the bore that catches a finger nail you may have problems, also with all that rubbish packed on top of the cylinders the irregular cooling/heating may have distorted the cylinders, get a hone with a nice new set of shoes and give them a quick whizz and look to see what the contact pattern is like, pistons tend to be ground oval by the way.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 27 July 2010 11:12:08
The piston skirts are like new. The bores of the cylinders are free from any groves or scuffs too. I was worried they were all over the place until I realised that they are tapered. If I run a finger down the cylinder from the untouched crankcase end that still shows the original honing marks to the section that has been worn by the piston, there is no perceptable step or ridge, just a smoothing in the texture. As I say, they look in great condition, I was just worried by the clearance at the crown end near the rings that is bigger than the clearance near the skirt which is spot on.

Posted by: opl505e - 27 July 2010 18:50:59
Nice OEM belt, fits perfectly with all the correct amount of shims [IMG]https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/opl505e/100_0268.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/opl505e/100_0269.jpg[/IMG] Any enquiries ask LT :wink:

Posted by: 55Kab - 28 July 2010 12:54:49
[quote=Last Triumph]Am I over doing it on the pics?[/quote] No. Keem them coming LT, this is one of the best thread's on the forums. :wink:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 28 July 2010 12:56:03
Spent much of today cleaning and inspecting - mainly the pistons and cylinders to establish if they are still servicable. Armed with a list of wear tolerances from the Bentley manual, I thoroughly cleaned up a piston and cylinder under the watchful eye of my vastly more experienced engineer Dad. For the record, the small print in the Bentley manual says that piston measurements should be taken at the bottom of the piston skirt. . . which was good news, because it means my pistons are well within tolerance and only about half the wear limit at approx 0.1mm clearance. Measuring the internals of the cylinder accurately was a little more tricky, so just to be sure, I used my new ring compressor and refitted the piston to check for clearance up the side of the skirt with feeler gauges. Yes, I know that feeler gauges aren't much use for measuring curved items, so to help the situation, I used one each side of the piston meaning I could use ones half the thickness which easily bent to the curve of the cylinder. No, it's not the best way to do it, but I was just using this method as a final check just to make sure in the absence of a dial gauge. The pistons are in very good shape and cleaned up well, and underneath all that carbon it was nice to see the original factory markings. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03649.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03651.jpg[/IMG] All the books say a tell tale sign of excessive wear is significant damage to the piston skirt. They look almost new. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03647.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03648.jpg[/IMG] I measured the ring thickness and there were absolutely spot on perfect in terms of thickness. I then measured the thrust clearance and found the oil scraper and 2nd compression ring to be as per new tolerance, but the 1st compression ring was in between the new tolerance and the wear limit which you'd expect on a 36k mile motor. Most importantly, according to the books is the condition of the sealing thrust face of the piston that the ring seals against. If you look through the ring gap, you can see that it is in excellent order - I've not touched these with anything other than a tooth brush and jet fuel. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03653.jpg[/IMG] I still need to clean up the outside of the cylinders, but didn't want to waste time doing this if they were worn out, but like the pistons, show very little wear. Certanly there is no evidence of burning, gouging or any perceptable grooves cut into them that you could feel with your nail for instance. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03657.jpg[/IMG] Around the base of the cylinder, you can still see the factory honing marks, which is to be expected as the piston doesn't go that far down! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03659.jpg[/IMG] The only concern is evidence of very light and fine surface corrosion - no pitting, just a very slight darkening in a few places where it has oxidized ever so slightly due to being stood a long time. With the rings being so good, I'm tempted to just reassemble as is pretending that it had never been apart. I was thinking about a de-glazing the bores and a new set of rings, but I'm not sure it's necessary. As other have point out to me - you wouldn't de-glaze and re-ring any other motor that was within tolerance at 36k miles...

Posted by: Last Triumph - 28 July 2010 17:24:58
Small development. I decided that I'd risk breaking them and remove a set of rings to check the ring gap as this is the only check I hadn't done. This is the gap between the ends of the ring as they close up together under pressure from the walls of the cylinder. Fortunately, I managed not to break them! Here is the lowest ring - the oil scraper which was at about 0.7mm gap, well within the 0.95 wear limit for all three rings. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03669.jpg[/IMG] Next I measured the next one up, the 2nd compression ring which measured 0.55mm, which is almost as new. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03666.jpg[/IMG] Lastly I measured the top one, the first compression ring. This is the ring that takes the most abuse in terms of thrust loads and temperature from the combustion gases. I knew there was an issue before I even offered up the feeler guages as the gap was much bigger than the other two. I measured 1.15mm which is over the wear limit. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03667.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03664.jpg[/IMG] I think this is time to make the decidion to commit to a new set of rings a de-glaze. If it had been below the wear limit, I;d have not bothered, but as it's over, it makes sense to replace and de-glaze which will give me some extra life in the motor, better compression and lower oil consumption. After initially struggling to remove the oil pressue relief valve due to the screw head feeling like it was welded on, which was eventually freed with some plusgas and a little heat from a heat gun on the surrounding case, I began the process of cleaning the case halves. I think this is time to make the decision to commit to a new set of rings and de-glaze. If it had been below the wear limit, I'd have not bothered, but as it's over, it makes sense to replace and de-glaze which will give me some extra life in the motor, better compression and lower oil consumption. After initially struggling to remove the oil pressure relief valve due to the screw head feeling like it was welded on, which was eventually freed with some plusgas and a little heat from a heat gun on the surrounding case, I began the process of cleaning the case halves. This is a job that you've got to be 'up for' and one that I'll takle in stages, a bit at a time for fear of loosing my mind! I rested the first case halve in the top of a bin, and began scrubbing it with jet fuel and various brushes. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03670.jpg[/IMG] This initial stage 1 clean is going to be a laborious process... Thought I'd get all the crud off the outside first, as I didn't want any of it to fall into the inside when it was clean. That's a bit more like it! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03671.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03672.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03673.jpg[/IMG] Scrub, scrub, scrub......

Posted by: cupa65 - 28 July 2010 17:56:03
Hi Where is the best place to get an Optibelt 9.5 x 905? Cheers

Posted by: Last Triumph - 28 July 2010 18:16:01
[quote=cupa65]Hi Where is the best place to get an Optibelt 9.5 x 905? Cheers[/quote] Me... With help from Matt, I've been trying to set up a supply of OEM toothless V belts for 'correct' resto's. Matt got the first one! If you want one, pm me your details - they're £8 plus P&P. For the record, 905 x 9.5 is for 34hp '61 - '73 Dynamo's, pre'60 30hp motors used a 900 x 9.5, although they're perfectly interchangable, one just sits a touch further up the pulley with a couple more shims. I've also got some correct braided nitrile fuel hose for modern fuels if you want any in the future... End of 'plug' :lol:

Posted by: cupa65 - 28 July 2010 21:36:21
Hi Do you want to do a deal for some Techtyl black body safe and the amber stuff? Cheers

Posted by: Last Triumph - 28 July 2010 21:58:43
[quote=cupa65]Hi Do you want to do a deal for some Techtyl black body safe and the amber stuff? Cheers[/quote] PM sent

Posted by: Last Triumph - 29 July 2010 17:47:24
I never thought this possible of anything, but cleaning the inside of crank cases both sucks and blows! Oh, and Dad, if you're reading this, it means that I did indeed remember to lock the door behind me when I came round earlier when you were out to 'borrow' your pressure washer, and that theives haven't stolen your computer? Hope you don't mind? And could I ask that you buy beer in bottles from now on, as cans just don't taste the same... It was time to clean the inside of the crankcase, and whilst the jet fuel is a very gentle and kind substance to soak things in, I needed something a bit more powerful to get in all the nooks and crannies. After some research, I bought these to try. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03679.jpg[/IMG] So, after a good soaking of one half of the case in the gunk and the other half in the Swarfega as an experiment, and with Dad's power washer on standby, I found a suitable vessle to do the cleaning in... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03675Large.jpg[/IMG] A wheelie bin has never been so useful - Doesn't he look a dick! For the record, both products worked well, but with a concentration of 10:1 or less, the Swarfega has the edge and had that 'solvent' feel to it even though it isn't, as the Gunk left an oily residue that I felt still needed cleaning off. I'm sure that if it was applied almost neat, the Swarfega would be awesome, but I followed the instructions and all went well - to a point... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03680.jpg[/IMG] The two products got the majority of the heavy gunk off, but despite endless pressure washing, there was lots of 'black' left in the corners and edges etc that needed hard brushing to disturb - joy... So, I decided to experiment with a degreasing mixture of my own. There was no science to it, other than what I had lying around, so I mixed in approximately equal preportions, neat Swarfega, concentrated screenwash, brake cleaner, cellulose thinners and liquid soap. Smelt good enough to drink! Wish I'd tried this to start with as it was absolutely amazing when sprayed on with plant sprayer, left to soak for 2 mins, then blasted off, the crud just washed away - most pleased. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03681.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03690.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03689.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03691.jpg[/IMG] Even though I'd held the pressure nozzle over each of the oil galleries for ages, I still filled them with brake cleaner and left to soak for 10 mins before blasting them with 120 psi from the air line. This shot shows what came out of the other gallery on the right hand main bearing carrier - I did this several times until they were totally clean. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03684.jpg[/IMG] I'll do a final brake cleaner, tooth brush and lint free cloth clean by hand when it's time to put it back together, but it's nearly there now. Here they are back in the garage soaked in WD40 awaiting some more love. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03692.jpg[/IMG] The comedy moment was when I realised that I'd blown out the main bearing locator pins with the airline, somewhere in the garden.... Do'h! Would you believe that I found them all by accident, almost side by side on the other side of the garden without even having to look! Awesome!

Posted by: Dakota - 30 July 2010 00:11:31
Hi I would suggest carb cleaner to squirt through the oil galleries in the case and crank, my local motor factor supplies Wynne's stuff that works very well and comes with a long plastic tube for poking in openings,you will probably need several cans, if your engine breather is all choked up Mr muscle oven cleaner works very well though it my take several applications, as for degreaser I used to by Comma Hyper clean as it does a very good job and washes off clean so to speak, though now I get a similar product in twenty litre drums, do you know the dimensions of your piston rings as I have a box full of new rings, well NOS, which I suspect are for 30hp motors, they ame from an old chap that hoarded Vw stuff, thanks Bill.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 30 July 2010 00:26:21
[quote=Dakota]Hi I would suggest carb cleaner to squirt through the oil galleries in the case and crank, my local motor factor supplies Wynne's stuff that works very well and comes with a long plastic tube for poking in openings,you will probably need several cans, if your engine breather is all choked up Mr muscle oven cleaner works very well though it my take several applications, as for degreaser I used to by Comma Hyper clean as it does a very good job and washes off clean so to speak, though now I get a similar product in twenty litre drums, do you know the dimensions of your piston rings as I have a box full of new rings, well NOS, which I suspect are for 30hp motors, they ame from an old chap that hoarded Vw stuff, thanks Bill.[/quote] Hi Bill, the brake cleaner worked a treat on the oil galleries - I did it several times until they all blew absolutely clean onto a white cloth. The rings are 2.5mm for the two compression rings and 4mm for the oil scraper. As for the diameter, the pistons are 77mm, so I guess in an un-compressed state, the rings will measure approx 80mm diameter? Cheers, Andy

Posted by: 55Kab - 30 July 2010 07:53:16
[quote=Last Triumph]The comedy moment was when I realised that I'd blown out the main bearing locator pins with the airline, somewhere in the garden.... Do'h![/quote] :lol: :lol: Nice one, that made me laugh. BTW - have you thought of giving the case the Pepsi challenge? I'm told emercing the case half's in Coca-cola for 24 hrs will do it the world of good for a clean up!

Posted by: Last Triumph - 30 July 2010 11:04:51
[quote=55Kab]:lol: :lol: Nice one, that made me laugh. BTW - have you thought of giving the case the Pepsi challenge? I'm told emercing the case half's in Coca-cola for 24 hrs will do it the world of good for a clean up! [/quote] With the case being magnesium, I didn't want to use anything caustic or acidic just in case (pardon the pun) but I'm delighted with the results from the methods I used so no worries. For the record, I've e-mailed BLR engineering (from the recommendation on here) enquiring about the cost of having new valves, guides and unleaded seats fitted, along with a clean up analso to de-glaze the bores on the cylinders in prep for the new rings. He e-mailed back saying he was on holiday and will contact me next week. I don;t have a bottomless pit of money, so we'll see what it costs. Any ideas or experience of what this sort of opperation usually costs. I trust this chap knows what he's doing? The website suggests he does. Question for people.... With the exhaust valves being stuck open, I can only assume that this will have compromised the guides in some way and that clearance aside, they'll need replacing? If so, is there a type of material I should use other than stock? Also, is it a no-brainer to replace ALL the valves whether they need it or not, especially if it's getting new seats? Likewise, do I replace with stainless, original and where is the best place to get them from? Also - exhasut studs... leave alone or replace with new and or stainless ones? I'm just thinking that new valves, seats, professional 3 angle valve job and guides is a really worthwhile investment in good running and longevity? I plan to strip the heads down later today and will post pics of what I find...

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 30 July 2010 12:24:01
I had the heads for my '57 30BHP engine rebuilt by L&R engineering in Hove, I think they did the heads for Rich Oakley's '47 25BHP too? The valves springs etc. I bought from VW Heritage. I had the exhaust studs replaced with stainless steel at the same time as it just seemed the sensible thing to do in terms of future proofing things. Can't remember exactly what the total bill was (I can check later), I think it was in the region of £200 though... The finished product was perfect, the engine runs very sweetly now with it's recon heads. Just need to bite the bullet and split the case and carry out the sort of work you're inspiring me to do now. This contiues to be a great thrread! Mike

Posted by: opl505e - 30 July 2010 17:20:08
stainless studs and brass nuts for the exhaust studs is good.# Make sure the guy knows what he is doing on the heads, I trashed one head by trying to replace the guides on it. Need to know magnesium/ally heads to be any good.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 30 July 2010 18:48:47
In between mowing lawns and taking the kids swimming, I removed the valves from the heads. Having never done this before, I was a little anxious not to damage anything with my new valve spring compressor which is a great piece of kit. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03695.jpg[/IMG] I quickly came across a problem though. It would only compress a fraction, then just locked solid - all of them! Puzzled, I eventually worked out that the collects had stuck to the valve retainer and was preventing any further movement. Not a big problem during the runnng of the engine, but it makes removing the valves impossible. To unstick the collects from the retainers, I put a 1" spacer under the valve head in the combustion chamber to stop the valve opening, then with a socket over the retainer, gave a few 'taps' with a hammer to shock them free which worked a treat. Some needed a firmer 'tap' than others, but they all came free in the end. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03713.jpg[/IMG] When they freed up, I was able to continue with the valve spring compressor as per normal. This shot shows the collets loose and ready to be fished out. I found that a magnet was the easiest way to rescue these slippery little devils! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03699.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03696.jpg[/IMG] Which left me finally with a bare head.... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03700.jpg[/IMG] Mmmm - crusty! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03703.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03704.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03707.jpg[/IMG] No doubt about it - new valves and seats I think! To be fair, the intake valves are absolutely fine, but I guess I might as well do them all if the jobs going to be done at all. Always nice to see original part number and stamps. Didn't know the valves were made by ATE. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03710.jpg[/IMG] And finally, my shrink says this picture is a backwards step, but said some progress had been made as I didn't line up all the collets in the correct order along side them in my custom valve holder. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03714.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: 55Kab - 30 July 2010 20:23:28
Superb ^^^ Reckon you could write a manual on the strip and rebuild at this rate.

Posted by: lucifar666 - 31 July 2010 08:28:04
Good stuff LT, I'm gonna try the cleaning mix on my case when I get there. yeah thats a great idea about the Manual you could be the witty UK John Muir :lol:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 31 July 2010 09:10:05
[quote=lucifar666]Good stuff LT, I'm gonna try the cleaning mix on my case when I get there. yeah thats a great idea about the Manual you could be the witty UK John Muir :lol: [/quote] Witty? :shock: I just try and inject the human element to what I'm doing. I'm no expert, just an enthusiastic amateur trying to do stuff properly and to the best of my ability whilst learning along the way. Thanks for encouragment everyone - it spurs me on! Got any contact details for L&R for a second opinion? If they're good enough for Rich Oakley.... :lol:

Posted by: JD - 31 July 2010 12:09:35
I´ve been told these motors respond very well to a little work. Bigger valves and one of these 356 grind cams will wake it up. Seems a pity not to do it while it´s in bits.:d

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 31 July 2010 12:56:00
[quote=Last Triumph] Got any contact details for L&R for a second opinion? If they're good enough for Rich Oakley.... :lol: [/quote] L&R Engineering Unit 10, Sussex House Industrial Estate Old Shoreham Road, Hove, East Sussex BN3 7DX 01273 770303 They do a lot of work on Porsches' and are familiar with the air cooled VW engine. Would have thought that there would be someone more local to you though with similar skills and experience? But if not, I would be happy to liaise with them for you. Mike

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 31 July 2010 15:00:58
One thing i found when i bought new valves was that the tapered part for the collets to grip was undersize .This meant that the collet faces touched when put togehter and were not clamping around the stem.I got around it by grinding the collet faces until there was a gap .This detail is often overlooked by generic engine build shops so it might be worth mentioning to whoever does the work. Mike

Posted by: Last Triumph - 31 July 2010 22:21:39
[quote=Mike Peckham]L&R Engineering Unit 10, Sussex House Industrial Estate Old Shoreham Road, Hove, East Sussex BN3 7DX 01273 770303 They do a lot of work on Porsches' and are familiar with the air cooled VW engine. Would have thought that there would be someone more local to you though with similar skills and experience? But if not, I would be happy to liaise with them for you. Mike [/quote] Courier costs will be the same anywhere in the country so I'm happy to go on recommendation and reputation. Is it best just to give them the heads and ask for new valves, guides, seats, springs etc, or is it better to source all the components myself and send them with the heads in a box? Never had this work done before so not sure what the protocol is?

Posted by: pre67vw - 31 July 2010 22:33:41
[quote=Last Triumph]Courier costs will be the same anywhere in the country so I'm happy to go on recommendation and reputation. Is it best just to give them the heads and ask for new valves, guides, seats, springs etc, or is it better to source all the components myself and send them with the heads in a box? Never had this work done before so not sure what the protocol is?[/quote] I had mine done recently and one company wouldn't touch them if I supplied the parts (in case I bought cheap rubbish), I actually went to another place and had my guides k-lined and ended up having to get the valves myself as they couldn't find any the right size.

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 01 August 2010 15:01:26
[quote=Last Triumph]Courier costs will be the same anywhere in the country so I'm happy to go on recommendation and reputation. Is it best just to give them the heads and ask for new valves, guides, seats, springs etc, or is it better to source all the components myself and send them with the heads in a box? Never had this work done before so not sure what the protocol is?[/quote] I bought all the necessary hardware from Heritage and supplied it to L&R as a package along with the heads. They were happy to use everything I had supplied. However, they quickly worked out that I had been supplied with 3 Exhaust Valves and 5 Inlet valves, so that delayed things a bit to start with... If you're thinking about using L&R, I would give them a ring and talk it through with them. They would be abe to best advise you on how to proceed. Mike

Posted by: Last Triumph - 01 August 2010 19:35:58
[quote=Mike Peckham]I bought all the necessary hardware from Heritage and supplied it to L&R as a package along with the heads. They were happy to use everything I had supplied. However, they quickly worked out that I had been supplied with 3 Exhaust Valves and 5 Inlet valves, so that delayed things a bit to start with... If you're thinking about using L&R, I would give them a ring and talk it through with them. They would be abe to best advise you on how to proceed. Mike[/quote] That sounds like a plan. It's experience with ally VW heads that apeals. At this stage, and considering how long it has stood, I think new springs, retainers, collects and stainless exhaust studs might be good insurance for longevity. Basically, I'll ask how much to send them my bare heads with new everything, and for send them back clean, with new unleaded seats, and rebuilt ready to install.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 02 August 2010 23:21:47
Sorry - no photos. First day back in work today after my holiday so missed spending time with the bug. Couple of fortunate moments today though - whilst looking for something in one of the workshop cupboards in work, I came accross all manner of convenient items. Firstly was a collection of honing and de-glazing tools! One of the techs who is our most experienced engine builder said that he'd happily de-glaze my cylinder bores tomorrow lunch time if I take them in - Result! Secondly was a nice big pot of Curil K2 engine case sealant which I'm sure I can find some use for, along with valve lapping paste, sticks etc, etc. Good to know it's there 'just in case'.... :) Thirdly, I found a proper internal mic/dial/bore measuring gauge which I was allowed to borrow for the night. This gave me a great opportuninty to satisfy my need to be ultra anal, fastidious, cautious and generally pedantic to my hearts content, oh and also to do far more precise measurements of my cylinder bores Long and short of it is that my cylinders are in really good shape and well within tolerence. The pistons are a bugger to measure properly though as they are tapered towards the crown making it very difficult to get meaningful measurements for roundness. They're not round and have deafinately worn ever so slightly oval closest to the wrist pins, but are perfectly round at the crown and almost perfect at the skirt. Generally though, I'd have to be building a brand new race engine to be getting worried about the fractions we're talking about, and I imagine that the vast majority of motors out there are similar or worse, so I'm definately going to re-use the B/P's. Spoke to BLR engineering who want an awful lot of money for new guides and seats which would have cost way over £600 plus cleaning them etc which I feel is too much. I tired to call LR engineering on the number posted but this number is not recognised. Dios anyone have a working number for LR Engineering and I'll call them tomorrow. Also, can you buy 30hp unleaded valve seats off the shelf? Can't find valve seats listed anywhere, unleaded or otherwise...

Posted by: Last Triumph - 04 August 2010 21:21:29
With the exhaust valves being replaced either way, I cleaned up the inlet valves, but some are too far gone to consider reusing them. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03715.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03716.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03717.jpg[/IMG] That is the worst one. I have sourced some NOS genuine VW valves, but still need to find a pair of inlet valves. If anyone has any genuine VW NOS inlet valves, please get in touch. If I can't find another two inlet valves, I'll re-use the two best ones that I have which are pretty much perfect anyway, but it;d be good to find another couple of NOS ones if I can...? As far as the rest of the heads are concerned, I've had a quote for £300 to soda blast the heads clean, insert new unleaded seats and install K-line inserts in all the guides along with lapping in the new seats the the valves. I thought this was quite reasonable and will be the option I'll probably go for. The company in question said that due to the high interference fit of the guides in the head, on older heads damage can sometimes occur when removing the old guides, hence the suggestion of K liners which makes sense to me. I've now had the cylinders de-glazed at work too, so that's another job out of the way.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 13 August 2010 21:31:12
Sorry for the lack of updates recently. I had a week off work that allowed me a few hours each day to make progress, but I'm back at work again now so it's just a snatched few hours here and there whilst I try and juggle 60 hour weeks, family, husband and dad duties... I haven't been idle though - every night I've managed an hour or so before bed time which has mainly been sorting and cleaning and preparing for the build up. Spent a bit of time on the heads which has resulted in a slightly different plan now I've had time to properly asses them under all the crud. In line with the whole original / NOS idea, and as my new valves are all NOS, there's no point fitting unleaded seats as the valves will just burn through first anyway, so I'll probably just use an additive for the little use it'll get. Whilst most of the heads are now clean save for a few nooks and crannies, the combustion chambers were still caked in carbon and no amount of chemicals, including celly thinners, brake cleaner, acetone etc would touch it, so I bought one of those small nylon brush attachments for my drill which removed it all nicely without damaging the alluminium. It also did a great job of cleaning up the crusty ports and valve seats. A really excellent tool. Now the valve seats are clean, I can have good close up look at them which on initial inspection, they actually seem very serviceable. Whether they need re-cutting or not I don't yet know, but I'll try and 'lap in' a new valve and do a leak test with some parafin. If I can't get it to seal, I'll re-cut them. I've also decided not to K-line the valve guides, and have bought a new set of both guides, and springs to be on the safe side as I'm convinced the ones held compressed for 17 years will be long past their best. I plan to do the guide job myself and will post pictures of all my crazy techniques, ovens, liquid nitrogen, freezers, home made drifts etc when the time comes. I've been a busy boy ordering parts too, and must say that I've had great service from Heritage and Status with very quick delivery and correct parts, first time. It's all the fiddly stuff that you dont think about that adds up. I got a genuine blue VW rear main seal which is a nice item, plus all the other crap like a flywheel locking tool, clutch alignment tool, new piston rings etc. Some of the stuff is a little tricker to get in original format and Karmann Konnection have been a big help here... for example, they have located me an original gasket that goes between the generator pedestal and the generator which I can't find in the UK easily. Most importantly though is that I now have everything I need to build up the bottom end and close the case. So, on my next weekend off, sometime in September.... :rolleyes: .... I'll do a final wash and toothbrush clean, then build up and close the case which will be a nice stage, and I'll work on the heads with a snatched hour when I can in the mean time. Sorry that there aren't any pics, but a picture of me holding a drill in a cylinder head is too dull - even for me, but rest assured, as soon as all the ingredients are together, I'll have a photo fest of the build up. Lastly, one concession to originality I am making is the exhaust studs. I carefully removed the crusty and expired originals (without shearing them I might add, thanks to my favourite plusgas) and will replace them with A2 stainless items, nuts and washers. Someone one day in the far away future will thank me I'm sure! Ta ta for now....

Posted by: Last Triumph - 15 August 2010 01:16:27
Whilst my wife was baking my son's 3rd Birthday cake, I found myself drawn in by the invisible yet powerful gravitational field coming from my garage.... We really know how to party a Saturday night away at our house! Took the camera this time too! Decided I wanted to see if I could remove the valve guides without destroying the world as we know it. I've had that many horror stories about cracking the heads, destroying the holes in the head that the guides sit in, failing completely, rounding the ends of the guides etc, etc. so I was determined to learn from others mistakes and experience. Firstly, after just an initial clean, the heads are starting to look a little more like the real thing, although there's still a long way to go to get them up to scratch. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03743.jpg[/IMG] Next up, I tapped a M8 x 1.25 thread in the rocker box side of the guides - about up to the point where the guide enters the head. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03733.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03736.jpg[/IMG] Another reason for cleaning the heads first was to allow me to do this.... without making the entire house smell like cylinder head casserole. 30mins at 100 degrees C, on a flat surface just in case. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03751.jpg[/IMG] With the head nice and hot, I inserted an old exhaust stud which has the same thread into the valve guide. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03738.jpg[/IMG] This is the bit I had to work quickly.... I bought some of that liquid nitrogen type stuff that plumbers use which squirts out of a thin straw and freezes stuff down to minus lots and lots very quickly. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03752.jpg[/IMG] Didn't have time to take pics of me squirting it in, but needless to say, a 5 second squirt down the guide (making sure you don't splash any on the hot head) got it plenty cold, shrinking it temporarily away from the hot and expandd head). Whilst it was cold I quickly put a close fitting punch through the guide to hit against the end of the exhaust stud. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03740.jpg[/IMG] I made sure that the head was supported on a semi soft surface to help reduce the chance of inducing cracks. One fairly hard tap breaks the initial grip between the head and guide, followed by about 10-12 gentle taps which had it out no trouble at all. Here is one halfway out [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03741.jpg[/IMG] The beauty of hitting the bolt rather than the guide is that it actually stretches the guide a fraction and therefore reduces it's diameter a tiny amount to help it break free, which along with the thermal difference made the removal process far easier than expected. Here is an old one next to a new one. Notice that there is no gauling or damage to the surface of the old one as it came out, and also notice the slim shoulder on the new one to take the guess work out of how far to insert them. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03742.jpg[/IMG] With the guides out of the way it will make cleaning the ports much easier. With the combustion chamber a little cleaner, but not yet perfect, I was releived to see how servicable the seats are under all the crud. These will be retained and re-cut if a trial lap won't seal them. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03746.jpg[/IMG] The plan to get the new ones in will be to heat the head to 150 degrees C for 30 mins and leave the guides in the freezer over night. Just before I insert them, I'll give them a quick grease and then a final good squirt of the liquid nitrogen to really shrink them down which, fingers crossed, should see them in without too much swearing.... I'll machine on a lathe a shouldered brass drift that fits snugly and deeply inside the guide and fits up squarely to the end of the guide to stop the end of the giude rounding and also to help get them in square on the initial few mm where they are tapered. As for the guides, Karmann Konnection supplied the new ones which I must say a lovely items. They are perfectly reamed inside, and a new valve fits in perfectly with just the right amount of clearance. This also highlighted how worn the old one were. That is all for now.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 15 August 2010 15:31:05
Good work as usual .I personally drill the guides with an 8.5 drill 3/4 of the way down to collapse the sides (using a pillar drill) and then use a drift to push them out .I always clean the hole with a reamer just to remove any debris .I found that the holes for the guides vary in size and are sometimes out of round probably due to heat or the tight interferance fit of the guides .I have also found that aftermarket guides measure around 10.04- 10.06 but the originals are around 10.1mm .Doesnt sound a lot but it makes a huge differance when there in.All i am saying is its worth checking before you fit and some rebuilders make there own guides for this reason. Mike.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 15 August 2010 20:17:51
[quote=Sunroof53]Good work as usual .I personally drill the guides with an 8.5 drill 3/4 of the way down to collapse the sides (using a pillar drill) and then use a drift to push them out .I always clean the hole with a reamer just to remove any debris .I found that the holes for the guides vary in size and are sometimes out of round probably due to heat or the tight interferance fit of the guides .I have also found that aftermarket guides measure around 10.04- 10.06 but the originals are around 10.1mm .Doesnt sound a lot but it makes a huge differance when there in.All i am saying is its worth checking before you fit and some rebuilders make there own guides for this reason. Mike.[/quote] I'd have drilled them, but I don't have a pillar dril and didn't want to risk braking through the walls with a normal hand neld electric drill. I haven't measured the new guides yet but will do. I've got them now, so one way or another, I'll get them in.

Posted by: Ovalbug - 15 August 2010 21:16:07
[quote=Last Triumph] It's all the fiddly stuff that you dont think about that adds up. I got a genuine blue VW rear main seal which is a nice item....[/quote] This is one of my favourite threads on the 'net at the moment :d . Its teaching me heaps, hopefully I'll be doing the same things in a few months as I've got to resurrect the 25 bhp engine in my '53. Can I ask who supplied the crank oil seal? I need to source one or two and have seen them listed on the Status website and with VW Heritage, but they seem to be on back-order at the moment..... Thanks. :wink:

Posted by: cupa65 - 15 August 2010 22:56:47
Hi Wolfsburg West are doing a high spec silicone seal. I used one in my 65 and it fitted well. Cheers

Posted by: Last Triumph - 15 August 2010 23:33:09
[quote=Ovalbug]This is one of my favourite threads on the 'net at the moment :d . Its teaching me heaps, hopefully I'll be doing the same things in a few months as I've got to resurrect the 25 bhp engine in my '53. Can I ask who supplied the crank oil seal? I need to source one or two and have seen them listed on the Status website and with VW Heritage, but they seem to be on back-order at the moment..... Thanks. :wink: [/quote] That's really kind, thanks - comments like that spur me on to write and photograph more! I spoke to a number of engine builders and got many different opinions about the rear oil seal with one common denomoninator that if I could find a genuine VW one, i should use it, so I did. That's not to say viton or silicone seals aren;t just as good or better - like I say, everyone has their own opinions and experiences, but nobody had a bad word to say about an original seal. Status have them in stock at the moment, turned up last week. Nice item with the correct VW stamp, part number, colour matches the original blue too! Just removed the guides from the other head using the same method as before and again, without a hitch. For the record - the original guides measure between 10.04 - 10.06. The new ones measure 10.06 - 10.07 so there shouldn't be too much swearing getting them in. There's always Cilit bang....

Posted by: Ovalbug - 16 August 2010 08:01:15
[quote=Last Triumph]That's really kind, thanks - comments like that spur me on to write and photograph more! I spoke to a number of engine builders and got many different opinions about the rear oil seal with one common denomoninator that if I could find a genuine VW one, i should use it, so I did. That's not to say viton or silicone seals aren;t just as good or better - like I say, everyone has their own opinions and experiences, but nobody had a bad word to say about an original seal. Status have them in stock at the moment, turned up last week. Nice item with the correct VW stamp, part number, colour matches the original blue too! Just removed the guides from the other head using the same method as before and again, without a hitch. For the record - the original guides measure between 10.04 - 10.06. The new ones measure 10.06 - 10.07 so there shouldn't be too much swearing getting them in. There's always Cilit bang....[/quote] Thanks LT, will try Status if they are Genuine :beer: . :wink:

Posted by: Ovalbug - 16 August 2010 08:05:19
[quote=cupa65]Hi Wolfsburg West are doing a high spec silicone seal. I used one in my 65 and it fitted well. Cheers[/quote] Thanks for the info, if I can get Genuine that will do me fine, the only trouble is getting hold of WW parts in the UK as delivery charges from the US appear to have become horrendous of late....... :wink:

Posted by: tman - 16 August 2010 14:00:24
KK sell a number of WW items, perhaps you could order through them?

Posted by: Jules - 16 August 2010 20:06:44
[quote=tman]KK sell a number of WW items, perhaps you could order through them?[/quote] Thanks Andrew... Yes, we have the early seal, pretty sure they are in stock! OE German, never had a complaint so safe to say they work well I think, from memory £8.00+ Vat less Pre '67 discount of course!

Posted by: Last Triumph - 16 August 2010 20:11:53
[quote=Jules]Thanks Andrew... Yes, we have the early seal, pretty sure they are in stock! OE German, never had a complaint so safe to say they work well I think, from memory £8.00+ Vat less Pre '67 discount of course! [/quote] Bugger - didn't know there was a KK discount for pre '67!!! I've bought loads of stuff from you recently!

Posted by: cupa65 - 16 August 2010 22:07:08
Hi As the 65 would be sitting around a bit I thought a Silicone one would be little more forgiving. Generally I'm will everyone else though. OE is the way to go. Having said that as long as City Seals and Bearings have seals and bearings from reputable companies like FAG etc then I think they will be OK.

Posted by: cupa65 - 16 August 2010 22:10:01
Hi As a matter of interest I have looked on the KK website but it doesn't seem to list the day to day stuff. Am i missing something? Cheers

Posted by: pre67vw - 16 August 2010 22:20:09
[quote=cupa65]Hi As a matter of interest I have looked on the KK website but it doesn't seem to list the day to day stuff. Am i missing something? Cheers[/quote] They sell tons of stuff that isn't on their website, just give them a ring and mention you're a pre67vw member for some discount :wink:

Posted by: spillo491 - 17 August 2010 20:19:54
KK website ?

Posted by: pre67vw - 17 August 2010 22:13:51
[quote=spillo491]KK website ?[/quote] [url=https://www.karmannkonnection.com]Karmann Konnection[/url]

Posted by: Last Triumph - 17 August 2010 22:16:59
[quote=spillo491]KK website ?[/quote] Karmann Konnection. To be fair, the website is only really set up for some of the rare or unusual stuff and is only a tiny fraction of what they sell. Tomorrow is a big day - I'll be doing a final clean on the case halves and then starting the build up. Ususal stuff - dizzy drive, bearing dowels and bearings, assemble the crank and rods, time the cam and install etc, etc. For those that don't know, I work for BMW who use Curil K2 to seal their engines, so bought a tub with a nice staff discount! :lol:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 18 August 2010 18:20:33
Was about to start the final clean of the case halves etc ready for the bottom end assembly, when I realised that the garage was very dirty with dust and debris - not the enviroment to build a motor, that's for sure. Also, despite my attempts to rienforce it as best I could, I was not 100% convinced that my work bench was sufficiently sturdy enough to support the weight of a fully complete motor weighting approx 100kgs in cantilever, hanging off the top for several days, and being unimpressed with the commercially available engine stands, I decided to modify my Empi bench mount stand into a mobile unit... So, with some hospital bed castor wheels, and the remains of the body rotation jig I made for my '64 project, I built this - quite pleased with my efforts... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03787.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03788.jpg[/IMG] I made the decision that this unit should also double as an engine trolley so welded on some support bars to rest the motor on. To give the motor something secure to 'seat' on, I welded some 6mm round bar to the top of the rails which sit perfectly into the cooling fin grooves along the bottom of the case. I mocked up the two cae halves to use as a template to get the measurements perfect. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03790.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03792.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03789.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03794.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03793.jpg[/IMG] The motor slides back and forth with ease, yet cannot fall off the rails. I had to roll the back end of the car out of the garage to give me fabrication room. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03791.jpg[/IMG] Can't wait for the day it rolls under it's own steam again. Next up - the engine build.... Out of curiosity, I decided to measure a valve guide after it had been in the freezer over night and immediately sprayed with liquid nitrogen upon removal from the freezer. I was surprised to measure it at exactly the same as when it was at room temperature. I checked several times, but can confirm that it was the same size at 10.07 before and after. Hmm - interesting...

Posted by: 64rotbox - 18 August 2010 19:38:59
Neat!

Posted by: cupa65 - 18 August 2010 23:10:17
Hi You may need more decimal places:?

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 19 August 2010 00:09:50
[quote=Last Triumph] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03787.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03788.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03790.jpg[/IMG] [/quote] I really feel like the grim reeper here and dont want you to take this the wrong way ,but you may want to consider bracing your stand from the upright post to the dolly bit .Maybe you could make it so it bolts on so you can remove it when you use the dolly but at the moment its not strong enough.I will post a picture of my Matra VW stand to give some idea of how strong it needs to be to hang a 200kg engine on a stand that overhangs 300mm or so.Just dont want to see anyone get hurt . Mike

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 19 August 2010 08:14:43
Here's a photo of my Matra stand.Hav'nt used it since i moved 10 years ago but couldnt part with it.It bolts to the floor and i also had it bolted to a leg on my bench to stop it twisting which it does with even a short engine. [center][IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Stanford%2009/30Hp%20engine/DSC06262.jpg[/IMG][/center] [center][IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Stanford%2009/30Hp%20engine/DSC06261.jpg[/IMG][/center]

Posted by: Last Triumph - 19 August 2010 08:22:20
[quote=Sunroof53]I really feel like the grim reeper here and dont want you to take this the wrong way ,but you may want to consider bracing your stand from the upright post to the dolly bit .Maybe you could make it so it bolts on so you can remove it when you use the dolly but at the moment its not strong enough.I will post a picture of my Matra VW stand to give some idea of how strong it needs to be to hang a 200kg engine on a stand that overhangs 300mm or so.Just dont want to see anyone get hurt . Mike [/quote] I understand your comments. It is made from 50mm x 30mm box sextion with a 3mm wall thickness - very heavy duty. The 50mm length is the stressed dimension. It's not the usual 1.5mm or 2mm wall thickness. The main body which supports the weight is one piece - not 3 pieces welded together, although the pics don't show this very well. For the two 90 degree bends, I cut a 90 degree notch out of 3 sides of the box section leaving the rear side intact. I then bent them to the right shape, chamfered the edges and blasted them with 150 amps ensuring full penertration. It really solid as a rock and very heavy. I've still got the 90 degree boxed gussets that were cut out to form the bends which could always be used to form internal corner braces.

Posted by: lucifar666 - 19 August 2010 17:01:07
Andrew, Just to let you know the belt and hose arrived today they look quality:d Thanks By the way your inbox is full and it wouldn't let me PM you.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 19 August 2010 21:04:03
[quote=lucifar666]Andrew, Just to let you know the belt and hose arrived today they look quality:d Thanks By the way your inbox is full and it wouldn't let me PM you.[/quote] Thanks for letting me know - I was going to pm you tonight to ask whether they'd turned up yet? Good quality aren't they - spread the word! :lol: PM box now empty....

Posted by: Dakota - 21 August 2010 23:59:11
Hi I dug out the piston rings the other day and it would appear I may have some to suit your car, they look a bit manky in the picture but its only because they have a waxy coating on them and dirt sticks to it, do you want any, I am enjoying this thread very much and best of luck Bill. [IMG]https://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww226/DAKOTABILL/P1010033-1.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww226/DAKOTABILL/P1010035-1.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: Last Triumph - 22 August 2010 00:20:42
Thanks, thats very kind, but I've already purchased a new set of grant rings. I'd have started the build up today, but ended up spending the day weliding a friends Beetle for him. Hopefully I'll make progress tomorrow...

Posted by: Last Triumph - 22 August 2010 19:34:51
Having spent all of Saturday on my back underneath my good friend Smull's Mexi bug, welding it, and having survived a night out with him afterwards involving beer and curry, I can't say I was full of energy today, managed the final case clean ready for assembly. This was basiclly a bucket full of very hot detergent, a selection of brushes and scouring pads, and loads of elbow grease, an air line, then a second going over with brake cleaner, more brushes and a final air line dry off, finishing off with a hair dryer to make sure no hidden moisture lurked. I was sure to get the rat tail brushes as far into the galleries as possible - it was nice to see that they came out clean. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03822.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03824.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03825.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03826.jpg[/IMG] All clean and ready to build. The two case halves are currently in bin liners keeping dust free until the build commences. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03828.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03832.jpg[/IMG] Now all the noisy 'outdoor' work has been done, I can do the assembly in the evenings after work, rather than having to wait for very rare days off.

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 23 August 2010 22:25:56
Lovely job so far Andy. Looking forward to the re-assembly.

Posted by: wazza - 23 August 2010 23:39:00
superb thread--thanks for sharing--more pics the better8)

Posted by: Last Triumph - 24 August 2010 01:34:48
[quote=Rich Oakley]Lovely job so far Andy. Looking forward to the re-assembly.[/quote] Just had two of the more frustrating hours of my life assembling the crank. Two of the rods go tight when fitting to the journals, where two of them go on fine and free. I've made sure everything is the correct orientation and that every single component is going back exactly from where it came - stripped, cleaned, tried again, checked, double checked, seated, re-seated the shells - over and over again - same issue. The tight ones are tight on all the journals, and the free ones are free on them all. The bearing shells are free when offerd up alone. If I offer up the rod halves alone, on one of them, the main rod is tight, where on the other one, it's the cap that is tight. I've measured and chekced, made sure the bearings are seating correctly and are back in the rod half they came from by matching up witness marks etc, and yes, the rod numbers match etc, etc. Come on guys - where am I going wrong? Logic tells me that it can only be a bearing not seating in the rod half, but I;ve cleaned and re-seated them what must have been nearly 50 times - always the same. Any clues?

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 24 August 2010 08:22:50
I had the same trouble when i tried to use old shells .Regardless of how they look once they have been disturbed they never seem to sit right .But,try this first: 30hp rods dont have very good bolts to align the two halfs so what i do is get two feeler gauges that are a good fit and push them in like you would measure the side clearance for the rod.One blade probably .2mm on one side of the join and one on the other. Tighten the rod by hand evenely to start with and remove the feeler.Thr feeler just aligns the rod but only in one direction. Check it rotates .If it goes tight use a mallet and tap the rod on one side of the join and then the other if it doesnt free off.The problem i found is where the tang sits in the cap and rod . Tapping with a mallet seems to settle it.I think the tang on the shell becomes distorted slightly on the first crush and because of the rods poor alignment it is impossible to refit the same.Rods are torqed to 36lbs foot and its normally the last tightning when they go stiff. You might get the same problem with the mains and my advice would be to get at least [b]new big ends[/b] and dont be tempted to install even a slightly sticky rod .KK sell them and vary in price on the 2 occasions i phoned . I went through all of this with mine and know it can be frustrating when you are so close to finishing .:beer: Mike

Posted by: Last Triumph - 24 August 2010 08:30:13
Cheers Mike - what is interesting is that I can identify the actual halves that are causing the problem. One one rod, it's the cap that is tight when offered up alone, on the other it;s the actual rod. Did you find that new bearings went in fine 1st time? Is there anything I can do with the tang to manipulate them into a better seat?

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 24 August 2010 08:57:29
New bearings were much better with only the odd tap to settle the cap.The problem I think are the rods,try putting the cap an rod together off the crank and see how much they move.thereis much room for error .I am off to sleep as I have just finished work. Good luck one more thing ,areyou fitting your rods with numbers up or down?.won't make a difference to the tightness just curious. You could also take the rods into work and measure the bore of the rodto see if it's gone oval shaped.just athought.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 24 August 2010 20:11:00
[quote=Sunroof53]New bearings were much better with only the odd tap to settle the cap.The problem I think are the rods,try putting the cap an rod together off the crank and see how much they move.thereis much room for error .I am off to sleep as I have just finished work. Good luck one more thing ,areyou fitting your rods with numbers up or down?.won't make a difference to the tightness just curious. You could also take the rods into work and measure the bore of the rodto see if it's gone oval shaped.just athought.[/quote] My vastly more experienced father is coming round tonight for a look - two heads and all that... I understand the out of round comment, but I keep thinking back to the fact that everything was free and fine before teardown. It must be a seating problem? I'll report back later.

Posted by: mooney3019 - 24 August 2010 21:58:55
don't lose heart, best thread thats been on here in ages ! cant wait to the the next pictures !:d

Posted by: Last Triumph - 24 August 2010 23:13:10
My Dad is my hero! More of that in a minute... Finally got the case back in the home brew stand ready for some action. The eagle eyed amongst you will notice the strengthening gussets on the engine stand - belt and braces and all that... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03852.jpg[/IMG] I wanted build up the crank first, so soaked it in a bucket of cellulose thinners - funny how after while with your head over the bucket, scrubbing, all your problems just seem to drift away... :lol: [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03854.jpg[/IMG] Always work in a well ventilated area kids! At this point, after I'd given the rods and bearings a similar soak and scrub, I began to buld them up and came stuck with a couple of binding rods as detailed a few posts ago. To cut a long story short, Dad came to the rescue (again) and brought with him over 50 years of precision engineering and engine experience which he soon put to good use. Watching someone with experience and 'feel' at work makes me feel a little pathetic and sad, as I know he's already forgotten more that I'll ever know. I love him dearly and I'll forever walk in his shadow. Anyway, it turned out to be a bearing seating problem, and with just the right 'taps' in just the right places whilst torquing the rod bolts up, they just clicked into place and rotated freely. We checked the cap alignment and side clearance which was 0.35mm on them all, which is within the tolerence of new parts. Dad also confirmed that the journals, rods and bearings were all absolutely fine with precious little evidence of wear. After a final torque up to 36 ft/lbs with thread lock, I was very proud to take this picture... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03855.jpg[/IMG] Thanks Dad! At that point, I was so relieved and happy, I decided to call it a night and plan tomorrows build up action. Before I sign off, some NOS goodness arrived recently.... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03857.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03858.jpg[/IMG] And finally, ready for the big day... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03853.jpg[/IMG] As used by VW, and BMW it seems! :D

Posted by: Last Triumph - 25 August 2010 02:16:55
[quote=Sunroof53] are you fitting your rods with numbers up or down?. [/quote] Interesting - I couldn;t find anywhere that stipulated whether the rods have an orientation or not, and as they are symetrical, i guess it doesn't matter. As I've used the oldbearings, I thought it best to put them back the way they went which surprisingly, two numbers up and two down when in the correct position in the motor. If all the rods are pointing the same direction, then the numbers are all on the ame side. However - the one thing I did notice is that the part number stamp along the rod length is facing towards the flywheel. I've checked all my pics from when I split the case and removed the crank, and this has confirmed the above.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 25 August 2010 08:13:27
[quote=Last Triumph]Interesting - I couldn;t find anywhere that stipulated whether the rods have an orientation or not, and as they are symetrical, i guess it doesn't matter. As I've used the oldbearings, I thought it best to put them back the way they went which surprisingly, two numbers up and two down when in the correct position in the motor. If all the rods are pointing the same direction, then the numbers are all on the ame side. However - the one thing I did notice is that the part number stamp along the rod length is facing towards the flywheel. I've checked all my pics from when I split the case and removed the crank, and this has confirmed the above. [/quote] The reason i asked was because your engine was untouched and i had found much the same as you in the way the numbers were orientated .They are symetrical but wondered how they were assembled at the factory. Glad you got the crank assembled ,there is a knack to freeing them off which is difficult to put into words .Forgot to mention that engineers blue would of helped identify the tight part. I see you have some new valves,one thing i would advise is to put the collets around each valve to make sure the two halfs don't touch.Somtimes they do and you have to grind the faces to make a small gap.The reason i mention it is because it never appears in manuals for some reason. Mike.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 31 August 2010 00:31:49
How to build a 30hp motor – by Last Triumph, age 34 ½ ….. Part 1 With days off now a distant dream for the time being due to my work, I’m restricted to evenings to get anything done, so here are the results of the last few nights when I’ve scrounged a hour here and there. So, with the left had side of the case in the stand, clean and ready, the first job is to clean, grease then mount the distributor shaft, thrust washer and spring. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03859.jpg[/IMG] When installed with the distributor and spring in place, (mine came had just one thrust washer, others may have two) there should be clearance of 2.54mm (0.100”) which measured spot on for me. The distributor shaft and gear was given a coat of grease upon installation. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03861.jpg[/IMG] At this point, it is best to set the distributor timing position – theoretically, this can be done later, but if you want the distributor to be in the correct position so the vacuum line meets up etc, it’s best to do it now before installing the crank. Before I did this, I completed the one thing I neglected to do when I rebuilt the distributor which was to set up the correct rod length for the vacuum advance. It should measure 43.4mm from the tip of the rod to the base of the housing. This is done by means of adjusting the threaded rod and lock nuts. Also, to prevent the unit ‘over advancing’ the clearance between the housing body and the bottom of the lock nut should be 3.5mm. Obviously, I spent half the night getting this absolutely perfect…. I just can’t help myself sometimes. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03864.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03865.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03866.jpg[/IMG] With the distributor installed on the shaft, the next job is to install the cam follower guides which on early motors are attached to the ends of the pushrods, which themselves needed a thorough cleaning, inside and out. They were soaked over night in a tray of thinners, then when fully drained, I squirted brake cleaner down each one until it came out the other end crystal clear. I’d already made a note of which one went where previously. A final blow out with the air line ensured they were absolutely spotless. This pic was before I started to clean them. For any youngsters out there – cleaning pushrods is not a great ‘first date’. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03869.jpg[/IMG] The pushrod tubes are soaking as I type – uurrgghh! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03870.jpg[/IMG] So – back to the followers. They all had the usual thinners bath, tooth brushing, wipe down, then brake cleaner followed by an air line to remove anything the cloth might have left behind. Boring and laborious it may be, but my Dad really read me the riot act about cleanliness during assembly. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03867.jpg[/IMG] They bolt inside the case with the nuts held tight with little locking tabs bent to the flat of the nut – not tightened in this pic. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03868.jpg[/IMG] You will notice that there is a machined flat surface on them which aligned the cam follower on the end of the pushrod which is a very close tolerance fit indeed. With the pushrods and guides oiled, the pushrods should fall out of the case under their own weight without catching or binding which can take a few goes to get the guides in just the right place, and keeping them there as you tighten the nut. It’s best to spend a while doing this as the last thing you want when the case is together is not to be able to get a pushrod through the guide… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03873.jpg[/IMG] Whilst were’ talking cleanliness – make sure all your tools are clean before starting any assembly – you don’t want bits of crud falling in your gleaming motor that have been stuck in a socket or ring spanner etc. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03871.jpg[/IMG] Now things started to get a little more serious. I needed to complete final assembly of the crank, so after checking the torque of all the rod bolts was 36ft/lbs for what must have been the 10th time, I fitted the 1 and 4 bearings and the oil thrower ring – after a thorough cleaning in the usual manner of course. Note that the oil thrower ring has the concave side facing away from the crank. Double and triple check all the journals are immaculately clean, and then coat journals and bearings with oil. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03885.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03879.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03880.jpg[/IMG] Remember these little critters that were blasted across the garden with the air line? – These are the bearing locator dowels and now is the time to install them into the bearing saddles. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03881.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03882.jpg[/IMG] The split number two bearing also had a bath. One half goes into the case at this point, ready for the crank. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03883.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03884.jpg[/IMG] And here it is, ready to go home…. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03887.jpg[/IMG] Just before installing the crank, now is the time to make sure the distributor is in the right rotational position and that the rotor arm is facing towards the little notch in the top rim edge of the distributor body. This is the position that the number 1 cylinder will fire. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03876.jpg[/IMG] This is because we will install the crank by holding rods 1 and 2, with rod one being all the way up in the top dead centre position, thus when installed on the distributor shaft, the timing will be correct, or very close and the distributor will be in the correct position. So, by holding the rods, gently lower the flywheel end of the crank and bearing into it’s saddle – you will probably need to rotate the bearing a little and then you’ll feel the dowel enter the location hole on the bearing and it’ll drop in place nicely. Then move forwards and repeat on the number 3 bearing and finally the number 4 by the crank pulley. Once this one is in place, the crank seems to click into place with a very satisfying a precision ‘thunk’ and will feel rock solid. Gentle tap the crank along it’s length with a soft mallet, but be sure not to hit the bearings. This will help seat everything when we want to close the case later one. Here it is - safe and sound! Interesting to see the oil thrower ring – nice design. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03888.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03890.jpg[/IMG] Next up is the cam, which needed a thorough cleaning also. Here it is after a very deep bath and scrub, followed by the brake cleaner, air line routine… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03893.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03894.jpg[/IMG] With the gears and bearing areas (30hp motors don’t actually have bearing, the cam just runs in the case) oiled, and the cam lobes covered in assembly lube, it is now time to fit the cam. The cam needs to be timed with the crank by means of lining up the dot stamped on the cam gear between the two dots on the crank gear. You can just about make this out in the picture. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03895.jpg[/IMG] With the crank rotated so the cam gear can be engaged in the crank gear without being near the case, slowly roll the came down into the case making sure the gears stay meshed. One installed, rotate the crank using the roods several times in both directions. If all rotates freely and the cam doesn’t try to climb out of the case, all is well. I did a backlash test but there wasn;t any on mine – it was a perfect fit as it is the original cam and gear etc. Here is the cam installed and timed. Note how close the cam thrust faces are to the case. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03897.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03899.jpg[/IMG] At that point I called it a WIN and packed up. Next I’ll be doing a little assembly on the other case half then closing them up!!! Tune in next time for more LT action! “Taxi.....”

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 31 August 2010 12:01:23
Looking good ,It may just be the photo but i would be asking for a second opinion on those followers.The face of the follower should smooth with no chatter marks.Heavy loads on the valve train can cause it so maybe your engine had some valve trouble before it was laid up?. Not really relevant but did you know that early 30hp pushrods had wood in them to control oil flow to the valve gear.I found out one day whilst trying to poke a peice of wire in one to clean it and ended up sawing it in half to see what was blocking it . Mike.

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 31 August 2010 14:37:13
I always thought the wood was uprooted from production when the 30 horse began? Knot that it matters in this case, a '57.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 31 August 2010 15:42:17
[quote=54 Gertie]I always thought the wood was uprooted from production when the 30 horse began? Knot that it matters in this case, a '57.[/quote] :lol: I am not sure when they Branched away from the wood but the engine i took apart was a 55 but theres no saying it was original.Will a 25 pushrod fit a 30? Anyway i wont Bark on anymore.

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 31 August 2010 16:52:46
Anyway, nice updates LT, after all that typing your fingers much be acorn. :beer:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 31 August 2010 19:55:55
I wondered what was rattling inside the pushrods! :lol: The cam followers are covered in grease and oil - they just 'look' a but funny - they're fine in real life. Thanks for the comments.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 01 September 2010 00:10:10
I was hoping to get the case closed tonight, but as is always the way, the smallest jobs often take the longest time. I installed the cam follower guides in the other case half and gave it a final wipe down and blow out. Had to do this on the bench as the other case half was hogging the stand. A silly job like this swallowed over an hour just to get the pushrods to fall smoothly and equally free under their own weight. All sorted now though. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03912.jpg[/IMG] When the case halves are closed, you need to install the oil pump before final torqueing of the case bolts to make it easier to get in, and because there is only so much time to do so before the sealant dries too much, it is preferable to have the oil pump cleaned, prepared and ready to drop staight in. Hence the rest of the night was spent cleaning and prepping the pump. First job is to clean it up. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03907.jpg[/IMG] The factory tolerance between the pump gears and the cover plate is ideally to be as close to zero as possible, with a maximum clearance of 0.004" to give good oil pressure. I measured mine at about 0.003" which is fine and dandy, but not very accurate as the mating faces whilst clean, weren't perfect. So, to kill two birds with one stone, I set about refacing the pump body and cover plate to clean, flatten and reduce the clearance a little. To do this, I turned a mirror upside down to give me a perfectly flat surface, and with copious quantities of soapy water, carefully and methodically resurfaced the faces with a combination of 800 wet n' dry, followed by 1500. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03902.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03906.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03903.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03905.jpg[/IMG] I was very pleased with the results... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03909.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03910.jpg[/IMG] With the body now prepared, I re-checked the clearance at just under 0.0015" - it's just a fraction under this at probably 1 thou, but my smallest gauge is 1.5 thou. I offered the cover plate up and it is almost an interfereance fit but not quite, which when the thin gasket is in place gives adequate clearance and good oil pressure at the pump. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03911.jpg[/IMG] Next up is to close the case...

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 01 September 2010 00:16:13
Damn, it's blurry, cant make out the telephone number, I wanted a Meriva as well. And the 1.4, nice. [img]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03909.jpg[/img]

Posted by: Last Triumph - 02 September 2010 01:54:15
Tonight was one of those “I’m not going to bed until the case is joined” nights – hence the late night post! First up was to complete the final prep for the oil pump fitment which began with adding some grease to the slot in the cam shaft gear which drives the oil pump. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03919.jpg[/IMG] Then some grease in the pump gears, the housing and the cover plate. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03920.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03921.jpg[/IMG] Now was time to start to get organised for closing the case. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03924.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03933.jpg[/IMG] I then methodically and carefully went round the entire perimeter of the case with cotton bud sticks and brake cleaner to make sure the mating surfaces were as clean as can be. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03926.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03925.jpg[/IMG] The cam plug goes in first, with some of my favourite Curil K2 sealant. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03927.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03930.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03928.jpg[/IMG] As an insurance against leaks or weeps from the case studs, I added a small dap of sealant to the ends of the studs inside the case. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03929.jpg[/IMG] Then around the outside of the case… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03931.jpg[/IMG] Last chance to check everything…. GULP! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03932.jpg[/IMG] And….. on she goes! It was then a case (pardon the pun) of doing an initial torque of 7 ft/lbs on the 6 main case studs whilst checking the crank doesn’t bind. Sealant and paper washers are used under the normal washers. Once all at 7 ft/lbs (tightening in a criss-cross pattern from the centre outwards) and once I was satisfied that all was turning freely, the bolts were torques up to 22 ft/lbs. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03934.jpg[/IMG] Before any of the other bolts were torqued up, the oil pump goes in with the thick gasket behind the pump, then the thin one between the body and the face plate – the face late gets torqued to only 5 ft/lbs. Although VW say to insert the seals dry, every rebuild book I have says to use sealant, so I did. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03936.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03938.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03937.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03939.jpg[/IMG] And the shots we’ve all been waiting for….. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03940.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03941.jpg[/IMG] Can’t tell you how good that feels! So I’ll sign off for now by saying, “Your Honour, the case is closed”

Posted by: Last Triumph - 07 September 2010 23:28:41
Picked up my heads and cylinders from the soda blasters today and I'm thrilled with the results - saved me so much time! Check out the cylinder head porn! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03951.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03952.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03954.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03955.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03956.jpg[/IMG] They masked up the ends of the barrels and did them too. I thought that they'd painted them when I saw them, but this was just the bare steel casting. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03958.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03960.jpg[/IMG] I then masked up both ends to prevent getting paint on any sealing surfaces. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03963.jpg[/IMG] And then with a few very light coats of this.... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03964.jpg[/IMG] They now look like this.... (although not as grey looking in real life) [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03966.jpg[/IMG] Before I packed up, I re-fitted the oil pressure relief valve, once i;d given it a thourough scrub. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03967.jpg[/IMG] To make sure the spring still has ample pressure and hasn;t compressed over the years, the manual says that it should measure between 52-53mm when new. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03968.jpg[/IMG] The plunger is hollow and goes into the hole in the bottom of the case 'head first' with the hollow side facing you as it goes in.... followed by the spring. In this pic you can see that I have used just a touch of sealant as a belt n' braces approach, just in case. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03972.jpg[/IMG] That's all for now.

Posted by: JD - 08 September 2010 10:03:04
Bravo LT - looking very good indeed.

Posted by: GKL 7 - 08 September 2010 19:40:01
Looks great...so clean,it'll be a shame to start it:wink:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 09 September 2010 00:00:33
Right then - some more action - but before we get down to the the money shots, I thought a little foreplay might help set the mood.... This is the new 'Stairway to Heaven' to my loft, where I keep all my NOS contraband filth! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03980.jpg[/IMG] I opened a few more boxes and couldn't resist a little appetizer... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03985.jpg[/IMG] Complete rear axle installation kit! (X2) [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03992.jpg[/IMG] Oooof! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03993.jpg[/IMG] Nice! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03989.jpg[/IMG] Wish I'd known I had this before I went out an bought an exhaust fitting kit and cork gas cap seal! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03998.jpg[/IMG] Which might come in handy for this little lot! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03999.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03983.jpg[/IMG] NOS battery cover was a pleasent surprize! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03991.jpg[/IMG] Steady on now.... hope this spare original sekurit windscreen doesn't come in handy one day! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04001.jpg[/IMG] This pic is the equivelent of showing a bit of suspender belt.... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03986.jpg[/IMG] I only had a quick peep in this box, but it was too much to take.... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04000.jpg[/IMG] Needed a cold shower after that little lot.... and that;s not all of it! Right then - down to business! Despite me having a lovely NOS oil strainer, I decided to thoroughly clean the old one and re-use it as it was perfectly seriveable. It had a deep bath in a custom mix of boiling degreaser which lifted the dirt off instantly. Came up like new! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04005.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04006.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04007.jpg[/IMG] Then I could fit it to the engine with a my nice NOS gaskets. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04011.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04013.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04016.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04018.jpg[/IMG] 10mm nuts get torqued to 5ft/lbs only kids! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04019.jpg[/IMG] And now for the valve guides - a job I'd been approaching with a little trepidation, I must admit. First up was to grease the new guides to aid installation and put them in the freezer overnight (last night). [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03974.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03978.jpg[/IMG] Hope nobody wants a midnight feast! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03979.jpg[/IMG] Then, with my best Gordon Ramsey impression, I popped the heads in the oven for dinner - 150 deg C for 30 mins, on a flat surface. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04002.jpg[/IMG] Mmmm, tastey! - Good enoughto eat! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04004.jpg[/IMG] Once they were thoroughly cooked, I removed the poor little valve guides from their icy tomb and blasted them with some liquid nitrogen spray for good measure! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04008.jpg[/IMG] At this point I had to postpone my photographic aprirations as I just didnt have time to stop and take pics. I made a soft brass drift and whilst fumbling with the guides through my thick welding gauntlets, 'tapped' them home. It was reassuring that the new guides were about as tight going in as the old ones were coming out - that is that they didn't exactly 'fall in' and I'm confident that they won't be falling out any time soon! Once the heads had cooled, I tested the valves and they seemda very nice fit, with just the right amount of freedom and play as per the Bentley manual. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04009.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04010.jpg[/IMG] I'd call that a win?

Posted by: GKL 7 - 09 September 2010 00:11:44
WIN,WIN.

Posted by: TEXAS PETE - 09 September 2010 09:57:03
I’ve just read this from start to finish. Awesome! I love the way you’re approaching and carrying out the work. a very lucky find. Seems like its found a perfect new owner to maintain the originality. :) I’ll be checking back daily I assume from now on. So don’t be shy on the pictures :) Pete

Posted by: Last Triumph - 09 September 2010 23:48:29
Dad came round tonight and gave up his evening to teach me how to lap valves - thanks Dad! I'd bought this basic kit earlier in the day. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04027.jpg[/IMG] I decided to choose the worst and most pitted valve seat of them all to learn on, and quickly got the hang of it. Dad taught me all the little techniques and the 'feel' of it. At last - a job that can be done in the comfort of the dining room! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04020.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04021.jpg[/IMG] Notice the continuous, unbroken and uniform dull grey ring round the valve... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04029.jpg[/IMG] And the corresponding ring on the valve seat. It took quite a while to cut through the minor pitting, but we got there in the end and I'm more than pleased that the seats can be saved. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04026.jpg[/IMG] Whilst I only managed to get one valve lapped tonight, I learned an aweful lot and feel much more confident to do the rest unsupervised. Couldn't resist a picture of the head with a full set of NOS valves in place - luuuurvely! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04030.jpg[/IMG] For the record, the coarse grit paste is not much use as it feels like there are rocks under the valve and it displaces almost instantly. I much preferred the slow and steady approach with just the fine paste. To finish off, I held the valve closed with my finger and filled the exhaust port with water and held it for 30 seconds - not even the slightest weep - that'll do nicely! I can see what the next week of evenings has in store though.... Zzzzzz

Posted by: TomF - 11 September 2010 00:56:39
This is a truly inspiring thread, I love stock stuff but it always seemed a little out of reach to the amateur. Great work on those valves too!

Posted by: Last Triumph - 11 September 2010 01:25:15
[quote=TomF]This is a truly inspiring thread, I love stock stuff but it always seemed a little out of reach to the amateur. Great work on those valves too![/quote] Thanks for the reply - I was begining to think people had given up reading.... Spent all of tonight with a head on my knee watching TV just calmly and slowly lapping the valves in with fine paste. I reckon 1 - 2 valves per night tops... Boring but satisfiying job.

Posted by: JD - 11 September 2010 21:52:33
[quote=Last Triumph]Thanks for the reply - I was begining to think people had given up reading.... [/quote] Hell no!

Posted by: mrsherbie - 12 September 2010 00:24:18
[quote=JD]Hell no![/quote] agreed. Although I admit I got completely lost through all this engine stuff and may have 'skimmed' a bit at that point :oops: :shock: :lol: but I [i]never [/i]tire of page one's pics! :beer: (I am secretly relieved that my 55's engine is a happy bunny luckily :oops:)

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 12 September 2010 01:59:01
No sign of boredom from me ,its always the first thread i look at .One thing i like about this thread is the details which hopefully will make people realise just how much work goes into a rebuild,even with such low miles as LTs.Its also a good eye opener for anyone wanting to buy one of these engines as they do have a different set of problems to the later models. Mike

Posted by: Ovalbug - 12 September 2010 04:13:49
[quote=Sunroof53]No sign of boredom from me ,its always the first thread i look at .One thing i like about this thread is the details which hopefully will make people realise just how much work goes into a rebuild,even with such low miles as LTs.Its also a good eye opener for anyone wanting to buy one of these engines as they do have a different set of problems to the later models. Mike[/quote] Ditto :d , first thing to do when logging on to Pre-67 is see if there are any new posts on LT's engine thread ...... :wink:

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 12 September 2010 08:18:45
[quote=Ovalbug]Ditto :d , first thing to do when logging on to Pre-67 is see if there are any new posts on LT's engine thread ...... :wink: [/quote] Ditto ditto... :wink: Mike

Posted by: Last Triumph - 12 September 2010 11:01:13
Ok fair enough - I'll keep up the pics and details - sometimes you wonder that people have switched off if you post a load of progress without a response - last thing I want is to get all boring on people. No pics you haven't seen already I'm affraid. Just hours and hours of valve lapping with a cylinder head on my knee. My wife thinks I'm secretly trying to start a fire the old fashioned way - and judging by the smoke coming off my hands on the lapping stick, I nearly did! :lol: One head is now fully lapped and I'll start on the other one tonight. Once these are done, I'll lap the tops of the cylinders into the head a little, then give them a final scrub to remove any final traces of blast material and grinding paste. Then it's a case of rebuilding the rocker assemblies and building the heads. I'mm make my own A2 stainless exhaust studs though - not paying £5+ each for them when I can buy a meter of M8 threaded rod for £2!! After that I can do a final 'ring land clean' fit the new 'Grant' rings (nice items, I must say) then assemble the top end.... Thanks for keeping with me!

Posted by: 55Kab - 12 September 2010 12:55:31
[quote=Last Triumph]I'll keep up the pics and details - sometimes you wonder that people have switched off if you post a load of progress without a response[/quote] Keep posting LT. Just because you don't get a response doesn't mean people aren't reading your posts. I've lost count of the number of people, some very well known in the "scene" who have emailed me direct or via PM about my car on the RW thread. They enjoy watching the progress but never post for various reasons which is fine with me. So keep at it, I for one am really enjoying this thread and am looking forward to the point when you're ready to fire her up. I was just thinking what an understanding wife you have. Mine tolerates it all but cylinder heads in the over would be a step too far..... :lol:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 14 September 2010 18:45:50
Last night was spent 'lapping' the cylinders into the heads. Thankfully this didn't take as long to do as the valves due to the softer alluminium head material. The reason I needed to lap the cylinders appart from being good practive was that the blasting process leaves a very slight textured finish on the surface which isn't great for sealing which might possibly interfere with the sealing properties of the joint under the compression stroke. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04034.jpg[/IMG] I added a good coat of fine lapping paste to the mating surface of the cylinders, then inserted them into position in the head. Once in position, I just rotated the cylinder with gentle pressure back and forth about 20 degrees in each direction for 10 mins or so on each one. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04036.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04037.jpg[/IMG] This process leaves a nice ground surface for the two components to seal against each other... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04038.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04042.jpg[/IMG] Now all the messy lapping jobs have been done, I can give the heads a final hot soapy bath and then start the head assembly in the next few days...

Posted by: Last Triumph - 16 September 2010 00:52:34
Whilst almost bent double with abdominal pains due to some weird virus going round at the moment, I still managed to get one of the heads built up. First off was a final scrub and clean in a hot and soapy degreaser bath to remove and last blasting media and lapping compound. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04062.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04061.jpg[/IMG] Then the original retainers and collets got the usual 3 stage clean up… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04055.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04056.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04057.jpg[/IMG] I then measured up the collets to the recess in the valve stem and found they were a little on the loose side. With security in mind, I set out matching them up in pairs, choosing a valve for them to live with, then using 180 grit wet n dry, I planed the mating surfaces of both halves until they were a snug fit with just the tiniest gap between them to ensure a tight fit. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04059.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04060.jpg[/IMG] The valve stems were given a final polish then cleaned, greased and placed in what should be there home for a very long time. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04068.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04069.jpg[/IMG] Decided another insurance would be new genuine springs, as the old ones have stood too long for my liking and some had lost a little strength and dimension from standing compressed for so long. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04063.jpg[/IMG] Spring compressor did its usual wonderful job allowing the collects to be fitted up… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04066.jpg[/IMG] And there we are – you can see the tiny gap between the collets. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04067.jpg[/IMG] And the head all done, bagged up clean and safe, waiting for the rocker assembly. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04070.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04071.jpg[/IMG] Not much, but another small milestone…

Posted by: 64rotbox - 16 September 2010 15:29:18
Good grief. Have you seen the film of them putting the engines together in the factory? A slightly different amount (i.e. very little in comparison) of care and attention going on, really.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 16 September 2010 19:21:22
Some factory footage while we are all waiting for the next installment.The embed you tube tab is missing from the reply box ? so just a link also not working :? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIy5Ache9h0

Posted by: Last Triumph - 16 September 2010 20:29:20
[quote=64rotbox]Good grief. Have you seen the film of them putting the engines together in the factory? A slightly different amount (i.e. very little in comparison) of care and attention going on, really.[/quote] I don't know any other way.... Can't imagine just throwing it together - that would be just 'wrong' surely?

Posted by: Ovaltine - 17 September 2010 16:10:05
[quote=Last Triumph]Thanks for the reply - I was begining to think people had given up reading....[/quote] This is an excellent thread, as I've said before somewhere! I don't make comments though as reading it is a big learning curve, so I can't add much. If the engine in my 1970 Beetle gives up, I'd just seek out a replacement to put in I'm afraid, not really worth the same effort as a 50s :wink:

Posted by: 59 Ragtop - 17 September 2010 23:11:16
As was said,its a great thread. Not particularly technically-minded myself,so great to see the car taking shape as you watch.

Posted by: beefykeefy - 19 September 2010 22:28:32
Really great work; what hours do you work on the car? By the time I get home from work, have dinner, put the kids to bed, I'm often tinkering at the kitchen table after 9, or down the garage in the cold and dark :shock:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 20 September 2010 08:13:19
[quote=beefykeefy]Really great work; what hours do you work on the car? By the time I get home from work, have dinner, put the kids to bed, I'm often tinkering at the kitchen table after 9, or down the garage in the cold and dark :shock: [/quote] Thanks. I work in the motor trade so time of is very poor. I work approx 55-60 hours a week, 3 out of 5 weekends, bank holidays and only get 1 day off in the weeke every other week if I'm lucky. Like you, by the time the kids are in bed and the washing up is done etc it's nearly 9pm, so much of the recent work has been done between 9pm - 1am... Haven't done much this week as I've come down with the norovirus and I'm absolutely in bits.... :(

Posted by: beefykeefy - 20 September 2010 23:28:01
[quote=Last Triumph]Thanks. I work in the motor trade so time of is very poor. I work approx 55-60 hours a week, 3 out of 5 weekends, bank holidays and only get 1 day off in the weeke every other week if I'm lucky. Like you, by the time the kids are in bed and the washing up is done etc it's nearly 9pm, so much of the recent work has been done between 9pm - 1am... Haven't done much this week as I've come down with the norovirus and I'm absolutely in bits.... :( [/quote] Hope you feel better soon :beer: I'm just off outside to fill my petrol tank with POR-15; it's had a hairdrier popped in the filler neck for the last 45 minutes to get it nice and dry. Done the same as you with your tank, Marine Clean, Metal Ready etc :d Last winter was outside working on the car until 1am too... had to stop as it got so cold, my hands stuck to the push-rods :oops:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 21 September 2010 00:34:16
[quote=beefykeefy]Hope you feel better soon :beer: I'm just off outside to fill my petrol tank with POR-15; it's had a hairdrier popped in the filler neck for the last 45 minutes to get it nice and dry. Done the same as you with your tank, Marine Clean, Metal Ready etc :d Last winter was outside working on the car until 1am too... had to stop as it got so cold, my hands stuck to the push-rods :oops: [/quote] Cheers, I've just come in from a session of end float measuring... :lol: Just need to order some new shims to get back within 'as new' tolerence :d

Posted by: beefykeefy - 21 September 2010 00:58:17
Hope you don't mind a question about the tank sealer. Just dried out the tank, and the inside has this white powdery residue inside. Is that a zinc coating from the metal ready, if so, do you know if it's OK to pour in the sealer?

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 21 September 2010 07:39:50
[quote=Last Triumph]Cheers, I've just come in from a session of end float measuring... :lol: Just need to order some new shims to get back within 'as new' tolerence :d [/quote] Where are you getting your shims from?Been looking for some myself. Mike

Posted by: Last Triumph - 21 September 2010 08:13:52
[quote=beefykeefy]Hope you don't mind a question about the tank sealer. Just dried out the tank, and the inside has this white powdery residue inside. Is that a zinc coating from the metal ready, if so, do you know if it's OK to pour in the sealer?[/quote] Yes it is, although if it is heavy, I'd be tempted to flush it again with some 'media' to remove as much of the loose stuff as possible.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 21 September 2010 08:14:59
[quote=Sunroof53]Where are you getting your shims from?Been looking for some myself. Mike [/quote] I was just going to call KK to be honest, and if they haven't any, Machine7 certainly do.

Posted by: beefykeefy - 21 September 2010 18:08:41
Thanks LT - it's only light residue, so should be OK. Trick question; how do I remove the gauze filter from the outlet tube at the bottom of the tank. The old filter is knackered, and I've got a new one from Status to fit.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 21 September 2010 20:22:51
[quote=beefykeefy]Thanks LT - it's only light residue, so should be OK. Trick question; how do I remove the gauze filter from the outlet tube at the bottom of the tank. The old filter is knackered, and I've got a new one from Status to fit.[/quote] The gauze filter is attached to a metal ring which is trapped in place when the fuel tap is installed. I trust you have the fuel tap out and 'on the bench'? If so, just prize the metal ring up from the body of the tap with a small screwdriver etc and it should just come free. It might be glued in place with years of fuel 'varnish' etc. Good luck.

Posted by: tipo3 - 23 September 2010 00:30:51
Miracles really do exist, just as well that take pictures of everything that has to do with finding such a pearl, you are very lucky, the Oval this whole you enjoy it as a show the last picture already doing, greetings from Paraguay South America! !:d :d :d

Posted by: Last Triumph - 23 September 2010 08:16:35
[quote=tipo3]Miracles really do exist, just as well that take pictures of everything that has to do with finding such a pearl, you are very lucky, the Oval this whole you enjoy it as a show the last picture already doing, greetings from Paraguay South America! !:d :d :d [/quote] Greetings my amigo! :beer:

Posted by: beefykeefy - 23 September 2010 12:42:13
[quote=Last Triumph]The gauze filter is attached to a metal ring which is trapped in place when the fuel tap is installed. I trust you have the fuel tap out and 'on the bench'? If so, just prize the metal ring up from the body of the tap with a small screwdriver etc and it should just come free. It might be glued in place with years of fuel 'varnish' etc. Good luck.[/quote] You were right. Years of gum and varnish made this little job a very big job. Spent an hour cleaning it, then soaked in WD40 for 20 mins. Ended up getting a bradawl behind the ally base of the old filter and hey-presto, it came off :beer: :beer:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 23 September 2010 21:34:08
[quote=Sunroof53]Where are you getting your shims from?Been looking for some myself. Mike [/quote] Hmmm - an evening of disappointment... Called KK the other day who said that they don't stock shims but that Heritage do... Another thread on another site said that Heritage haven't got any left. Machine7 stock shims so I ordered them and they are too big in diameter despite me asking if they were correct. I trust early ones are a smaller diameter? So - its all engines STOP until I can get some correct shimms.... Answers on a postcard before the cobwebs start to build up. :(

Posted by: 55Kab - 23 September 2010 22:53:48
[quote=Last Triumph]Answers on a postcard before the cobwebs start to build up. :( [/quote] Can't you get a friendly engineering shop to machine some up for you :?:

Posted by: TomF - 24 September 2010 01:07:39
[quote=55Kab]Can't you get a friendly engineering shop to machine some up for you :?: [/quote] Exactly what I was going to suggest, if you know the inner and outer diameter and the thickness you require, surely some engineering firm could make some up for you? You could even make a batch and supply Heritage, they have been out of stock for a long time IIRC.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 24 September 2010 07:40:22
Shims are not machined as such, they are stamped from spring steel i think.A fabrication company with a hole punching machine(strippit IIRC ) may be the best bet. Good luck. LT, are you going to the ivan hirst show this weekend ?

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 24 September 2010 07:54:46
Just out of interest ,what is your endfloat with your original shims ?.You can gain 0.1mm by leaving out the paper gasket between the flywheel and crank and maybe use loctite instead .

Posted by: Last Triumph - 24 September 2010 08:26:03
[quote=Sunroof53]Just out of interest ,what is your endfloat with your original shims ?.You can gain 0.1mm by leaving out the paper gasket between the flywheel and crank and maybe use loctite instead .[/quote] Sorry - can't make any shows this weekend - I'm working, like most weekends... :roll: Badly in need of a career change, but thats a long running saga not for this thread... With the 3 original 0.3 shims in place, I'm at 0.2 - 0.21 depending on how hard I pull the flywheel, so yeah, if I ditched the paper gasket, I guess I'd be there... But.... It doesn't seem the right thing to do to be honest. I don't know it's exact purpose but imagine it's there for a reason??? I might have tracked down someone with a few lying around in their shed and am just waiting to hear...

Posted by: Last Triumph - 24 September 2010 23:13:40
Sorry for the radio silence chaps - my illness is thankfully behind me and I'm now back in the garage... However - on the same night I got sick, I had a little disaster! Just as I'd sat down in front of the TV to lap in the cylinders to the heads, I stood up to reach for something and knocked the cylinder head off the table..... I heard the thunk and just closed my eyes. After about 10 seconds of silently screaming inside my head, I opened my eyes and looked down to firstly see this... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04100.jpg[/IMG] Now, normally a good chunk out of my new wooden floor would wind me off the clock - but not this day. The damaged floor was a none event compared to what I found next... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04072.jpg[/IMG] I really can't describe how that felt. Maybe that was what caused me to be ill! :lol: Seriously though, I was really 'miffed' to coin a phrase and pondered what to do. Many and most folks just said to leave it, "it'll be fine" but this wasn't the point. I knew it was damaged and it was me that had done it. Several visits to a few local welders and fabricators all yeilded the same response of "The piece is too small and thin, and with it being cast, it'll wind up a real mess....." By the time I'd heard that the forth time, I was convinced that was that and I'd have to live with it. ....except that's just not me, and taking 'no' for an answer is one of the things I'm least good at in this world, so I kept on nagging anyone and everyone I could think of, until I struck gold! One of my colleague's friends just happens to be a welder. A coded, certified welder for none other than Airbus, and spends his days welding wing spars! If anyone was going to be able to do something with it, he was... So, after a week long wait, I finally got it back looking like this!!!!! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04094Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04095Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04098Medium.jpg[/IMG] What can I say other than OMG!!! Totally over the moon - it's perfect! He also agreed that the piece was too small to weld back on, so instead of backing out, took on the challenge and carefully welded row upon row of weld, over and over again until he'd built up a new fin, then sanded it back to what you see above. Can't say how pleased and relieved I am to have it back as nature intended and so glad I didn't give up. Skills - the man's got skills! :D

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 24 September 2010 23:18:12
Unlucky with the head damage Andy. But that repair work is fantastic!

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 24 September 2010 23:29:18
[quote=Last Triumph]Sorry - can't make any shows this weekend - I'm working, like most weekends... :roll: Badly in need of a career change, but thats a long running saga not for this thread... With the 3 original 0.3 shims in place, I'm at 0.2 - 0.21 depending on how hard I pull the flywheel, so yeah, if I ditched the paper gasket, I guess I'd be there... But.... It doesn't seem the right thing to do to be honest. I don't know it's exact purpose but imagine it's there for a reason??? I might have tracked down someone with a few lying around in their shed and am just waiting to hear... [/quote] Personally i would be happy at 0.2 ,as you are using the original bearings .I also believe that the paper seal was disscontinued on later engines as too many flywheels came loose.later engines had an o ring in the flywheel so the faces could be metal to metal for a more positive location.Maybe you could phone a volume engine builder for advice .Terrys beetle services build these engines so maybe worth a call to put your mind at rest or may even have a .35 shim . Mike

Posted by: Last Triumph - 24 September 2010 23:34:05
[quote=Rich Oakley]Unlucky with the head damage Andy. But that repair work is fantastic![/quote] I was gutted buddy - gutted. I mean, lets get it in perspective, it's not a big deal really, but to me I was really disappointed. To have it back as good as new though is a real treat. Amazing skills!

Posted by: Last Triumph - 24 September 2010 23:37:50
[quote=Sunroof53]Personally i would be happy at 0.2 ,as you are using the original bearings .I also believe that the paper seal was disscontinued on later engines as too many flywheels came loose.later engines had an o ring in the flywheel so the faces could be metal to metal for a more positive location.Maybe you could phone a volume engine builder for advice .Terrys beetle services build these engines so maybe worth a call to put your mind at rest or may even have a .25 shim . Mike[/quote] I've got someone sending me their spare shims for me to route through - hopefull there'll be a combination in there that works. Failing that, I'll give Peter E. a call as I've dealt with him before and I know he's good with early stuff... As for the paper gasket... what is it's purpose? Does it provide a seal for anything? Could it be replaced with a film of Curil K2 that will compress to zero?? Also, what is the general thoughts on gland nut torque? - I know that officially 217 ft/lbs is the magic number, but several books and articals talk of 250 - 300+ with loctite... Opinions please?

Posted by: Dakota - 24 September 2010 23:41:33
Hi I think you will find the crank shims are the same as dimentions as those used in Porsche 356 engines so you could try Roger Bray in EXETER 01404 822005 or Karmann Konnection or PRS services in Essex , Bill.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 24 September 2010 23:43:32
[quote=Dakota]Hi I think you will find the crank shims are the same as dimentions as those used in Porsche 356 engines so you could try Roger Bray in EXETER 01404 822005 or Karmann Konnection or PRS services in Essex , Bill.[/quote] That's good info, cheers. KK definately don't sell them as I called yesterday. Who are PRS?

Posted by: Dakota - 24 September 2010 23:58:10
Hi Me again, the flywheel bolt should be pretty tight, later Porsche 356 motors went from pretty much the VW torque to 327foot pounds on exactly the same bolt the only difference being the Porsche engines were making progressively more power so may have started suffering from loose flywheels, the gasket does serve a purpose as you really can get oil leaks between the crank and flywheel although I don't see why a modern sealer used in moderation would not do the same job and have the effect of reucing the end float too, I would also suggest using the old flywheel bolt for float setting up and fit a new one when finally bolting the 'wheel in place and I would suggest not getting the end float right on the minimum setting as you could end up with the thing locking up on the main under certain circumstances, years ago I rebuilt a friends camper engine and was very pleased with myself for getting the float spot on the bottom end of the tolerance, it ran perfectly for seven thousand miles until one morning he sat at a junction with the clutch depressed for longer than normal and it kind of stalled then would not turn, this was the crank and flywheel biting up on the crank, when the clutch is depressed the flywheel is pushed up against the front main, I think a little too much heat with not quite enough room and that was that, mercifully the damage was minor and the engine went again with a bit of therapy.

Posted by: Dakota - 25 September 2010 00:03:49
I have some spare shims I will see what I have kicking about.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 25 September 2010 00:19:50
[quote=Dakota]I have some spare shims I will see what I have kicking about.[/quote] Mega - super stuff, thanks a whole bunch! :beer: In an ideal world, I reckon I need 3 x .34, or maybe 2x .34 and 1 x .36..... I'll shoot for about 0.1 end float and steer clear of the 0.07 lower limit. As for the gland nut, I'll tighten to 250 - 275lbs with a decent slug of loctite, what do you reckon?

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 25 September 2010 05:17:22
[quote=Last Triumph]I've got someone sending me their spare shims for me to route through - hopefull there'll be a combination in there that works. Failing that, I'll give Peter E. a call as I've dealt with him before and I know he's good with early stuff... As for the paper gasket... what is it's purpose? Does it provide a seal for anything? Opinions please?[/quote] It is described as a gasket in the VW manuals so it does provide sealing as later flywheels had an O ring instead that fitted in the counterbore of the flywheel.The VW manual tells you to measure the depth of the counterbore and the distance from the crank to bearing face to calculate end float.It says that the gasket is 0.2mm and compresses to 0.15 but my experience is 0.1 using an aftermarket seal kit.I think the reason for measuring is so you dont compress the new gasket when you are trial fitting otherwise you need a new one for the final fit. Another thing i found is that if you only half torque the bolt for trial fitting the gasket can crush some more when you go to the VW figure of 217 lbs which can cause a problem if you are on the low side of the limit.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 25 September 2010 08:56:59
[quote=Sunroof53]It is described as a gasket in the VW manuals so it does provide sealing as later flywheels had an O ring instead that fitted in the counterbore of the flywheel.The VW manual tells you to measure the depth of the counterbore and the distance from the crank to bearing face to calculate end float.It says that the gasket is 0.2mm and compresses to 0.15 but my experience is 0.1 using an aftermarket seal kit.I think the reason for measuring is so you dont compress the new gasket when you are trial fitting otherwise you need a new one for the final fit. Another thing i found is that if you only half torque the bolt for trial fitting the gasket can crush some more when you go to the VW figure of 217 lbs which can cause a problem if you are on the low side of the limit.[/quote] Already crushed it! :lol: I can't imagine it'll be a problem though. I'll install it with a film of K2 just to be sure though...

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 25 September 2010 14:35:18
I think that gasket has to be dry .My worry would be that the sealer would react with the paper and eventually make your flywheel loose.Thats just my own thought though and to be honest i have never liked that gasket ,especially in an aftermarket kit. Ps Love the head repair.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 28 September 2010 22:25:24
Last couple of nights have just been cleaning stuff - very dull indeed, but at least the fumes from the thinners keeps me entertained. I was in two minds whether to ditch the push rod tubes for new ones as they were so crusty, but gave them a stay of execution and attempted a clean up. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03528.jpg[/IMG] I left them soaking in the jet fuel for a few weeks whilst other work was done which removed a fair chunk of the crud and left them looking like this as a starting point. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04118.jpg[/IMG] I spent a long time with a brass wire brush cleaning them up which I must say brought them up a treat. I also soaked them in a bath of thinners and cleaned them inside and out with various brushes to make sure the insides are as clean as the outside and that no dirt is left to contaminate the fresh oil [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04117.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04122Medium.jpg[/IMG] I think they've come up a treat. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04125Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04127Medium.jpg[/IMG] Also started on the rocker assemblies and rocker covers which are in a similar state. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04107.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04119.jpg[/IMG] The usual 3 stage clean of jet fuel, thinners and then brake cleaner... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04124Medium.jpg[/IMG] Anyone care to comment on whether the tips on the adjusters are excessively worn, or whether these are ok to re-use? [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04121.jpg[/IMG] I'm kind of in the middle of cleaning stuff at the moment, so that's all for now. More progreess soon... Thanks for checking in!

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 29 September 2010 07:55:55
Your rocker screws look ok to use from the photo as long as there is no flat spots on the tip.I would pull the concertinered bit and clean between them .You will need to pull them a bit before you reinstall.There is a length to pull them to but i forgot .Also when you install them i always fit them with the welded seam to the top as thats the first place they leak if they are going to .I'll look for the length of the tubes as i am sure you will want to get it spot on :wink: . Mike.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 29 September 2010 08:12:41
[quote=Sunroof53]Your rocker screws look ok to use from the photo as long as there is no flat spots on the tip.I would pull the concertinered bit and clean between them .You will need to pull them a bit before you reinstall.There is a length to pull them to but i forgot .Also when you install them i always fit them with the welded seam to the top as thats the first place they leak if they are going to .I'll look for the length of the tubes as i am sure you will want to get it spot on :wink: . Mike.[/quote] Might be a daft question, but what is the technique for pulling the tube ends appart without damaging them. They seam very stiff indeed.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 29 September 2010 16:10:02
They are hard to pull especially if they were a bit rusty.I just holdthe middle of the tube and wiggle the other end until it moves out .Warming them helps if you have gloves.Somtimes only the first few concertiner bits expand but try and open all the grooves if you can as it will enable you to clean them as well. ,you only need about 3mm each end to make sure the seal has pressure on it.The reason they have the springy bit is to allow for expansion ,otherwise they would leak when the engine gets warm. Mike.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 30 September 2010 00:00:19
More cleaning and prep.... You may remeber that I gave the pistons a quick tidy up so I could take accurate measurements to determine their wear...? As I'll soon be attaching them back on the rods, I was in the mood to clean them properly. I established that new rings were needed a long time ago as the gap in the top compression ring was out of spec. After taking the rings out, I noticed that the ring grooves had lots of built up carbon deposits that needed to removal. I broke an old ring in half and very carefully used it to remove all the crusty stuff, but this still left a surface contamination that I wsn't happy with. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04132Medium.jpg[/IMG] I've tried everything I can think of to try and remove it, soaking them in brake cleaner, acetone, celly thinners, carb cleaner etc, but it just laughed in my face like that girl at the school disco.... Short of getting them blasted, which I didn't really want to do, I was running out of ideas and certainly didn't want any kind of abraisive brush near the soft alluminium. However, by accident I came accross this in the cupboard under the kitchen sink.... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04129Medium.jpg[/IMG] Nothing on the side of the tin mentioned anything about it disolving Volkswagen pistons, so in a moment of admirable bravery, I gave it a go... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04133Medium.jpg[/IMG] I let it soak for about 10 minutes, then with a soft tooth brush, carfeully worked the foam into the piston, making sure that there wasn't any reaction with the alluminium. After another 10 minutes soaking, I blasted them clean with cold water from the garden hose to remove any residue, follwed by a hot soapy bath to neutralise any chemicals that might have been left. Once they were dried off and I'd given them a quick buff up with a cloth, I can happily report that 8 out of 10 Volkswagen owners who expressed a preference said that this particular brand of oven cleaner works an absolute treat! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04134Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04136Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04138Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04143Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04141Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04147Medium.jpg[/IMG] Now I can fit my new 'Grant' rings and make preparations to assemble the top end once I get the rockers clean and rebuilt. Cheers all!

Posted by: 2splits - 30 September 2010 18:37:46
awesome!

Posted by: Rustyoval - 30 September 2010 22:04:41
8) Phenomenal work there, keep it up!

Posted by: Last Triumph - 01 October 2010 00:48:02
Whilst my wife was baking the most incredible mixed spice marble cake with toffee fudge icing, I escaped to the garage for some more precision based action (cake was fantastic BTW) I had a little parcel arrived this morning from my good friend ‘Fuzzyduck’ which contained a selection of crank shims to allow me to set up the correct end float. Cheers Fuzz! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04076.jpg[/IMG] It took me several attempts to find the right combination of 3 shims to get the end float just where I wanted it at 0.1mm, which is dead in between the tolerances in the Bentley manual. Sad I know, but I just can’t help myself… Anyway, first up was to clean the flywheel…. With my new found friend! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04167Medium.jpg[/IMG] Which did a splendid job of cleaning up the friction surface where the clutch disc sits. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04168Medium.jpg[/IMG] I then polished the surface of the flywheel where the oil seal sits to ensure a good seal. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04169Medium.jpg[/IMG] In preparation for my new genuine original VW oil seal! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04172Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04174Medium.jpg[/IMG] Next up was to prep the gland nut. Some say use a new one, others say the original one is fine if in good condition….. I cleaned the original one, inspected the fibre washer for wear, re-greased the roller bearings then added a little loctite to the threads just to be on the safe side. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04164Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04166Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04182Medium.jpg[/IMG] Now for the fun bit! First on was the paper gasket – I gave this the slightest smear of K2, just enough to dampen it, but not enough to smear or squeeze. If nothing else, it stopped it falling off during assembly! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04080.jpg[/IMG] With the shims and gasket installed, I added a smear of K2 to the outside of the new crank seal and inserted it into the case as carefully and as straight as possible using a block of wood and a mallet. I was amazed at how difficult it was to get in – I’m confident that it won’t leak from the outside part, that’s for sure! The books say that the early seals are fully home when they are flush with the case, but mine still sat proud even when ‘home’. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04180Medium.jpg[/IMG] This was a concern to me, but it simply wouldn’t go in any further…. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04175Medium.jpg[/IMG] As a last resort, I took a look at a picture I took when I first removed the flywheel, and to my relief, saw that the original seal from the factory was proud by the same amount also! Phew! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03524.jpg[/IMG] At this point I took out my massive tool…. In order to apply sufficient torque to the gland nut, you need to find a way to lock the fly wheel. I bought a flywheel lock too which will come in handy for the front pulley and other lighter duties, but I’d heard of a couple of broken cases around the stud hole where they fix and didn’t want to risk it. So…. I took a long length of box section, drilled two holes to match the holes in the flywheel for the clutch plate and braced it against the engine stand. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04157Medium.jpg[/IMG] Simple, but very effective! Now for a VERY large torque wrench! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04161Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04162Medium.jpg[/IMG] 217 ft/lbs is the factory torque figure, yet many books say to do it tighter – some up to 300!! - I chose 250 ft/lbs as a nice round figure and torqued it up with ease, thanks to the length of the wrench and the sturdiness of the brace bar. And now for the moment of truth – re-checking the end float. I used a magnetic dial gauge like so… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04153Medium.jpg[/IMG] With the crank pushed all the way in, I set the dial at zero…. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04148Medium.jpg[/IMG] Then with it pushed back fully the other way, took another reading! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04151Medium.jpg[/IMG] That’ll do nicely, sir! A word about measuring end-float accurately…. I found that pulling the edges of the flywheel against the outer edge of the case with your hands highlighted a small element of flex in both parts which depending on how hard you pull, distorted the readings. After an awful lot experimentation, I found that it is best to push the flywheel from the centre, not against the engine stand which is mounted to the case flange, but against the front end of the case as if you where trying to squeeze the case. This removes any possibility of flex. Likewise, I tapped the crank pulley end of the crank gently with a lock of wood and a mallet to ensure it was fully pushed the other way, rather than pulling on it the other end. After doing it this way 5 times, I got exactly the same readings every time. Anyway – here it is, another small step forwards. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04183Medium.jpg[/IMG] Party on!

Posted by: Dakota - 01 October 2010 00:55:28
Hi I finally had a look at my spare end float shims and discovered I only have used ones and pretty well used at that, I must have used the last new ones I had on the last Porsche motor I rebuilt, I hope you have some luck with the Porsche guys you could even try a main dealer, Porsche that is, as they can get hold of quite a few bits and pieces for their older models, as for push rod tubes I always replace them as their cost is easily justified by the potential hassle of fixing oil leaks or contamination caught in their concertina sections, their not dear so why risk it.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 01 October 2010 01:14:37
[quote=Dakota]Hi I finally had a look at my spare end float shims and discovered I only have used ones and pretty well used at that, I must have used the last new ones I had on the last Porsche motor I rebuilt, I hope you have some luck with the Porsche guys you could even try a main dealer, Porsche that is, as they can get hold of quite a few bits and pieces for their older models, as for push rod tubes I always replace them as their cost is easily justified by the potential hassle of fixing oil leaks or contamination caught in their concertina sections, their not dear so why risk it. [/quote] Shims sorted thanks - as per above ^^ As for the push rod tubes - I know what you mean, money is not the issue, I just want to keep as much originality as possible. I did a leak test on them and they're fine. I managed to pull a couple of ends open and other than a light coating of dirt, they're fine there also. Maybe I've just been luck (so far!)

Posted by: Last Triumph - 01 October 2010 22:22:57
Having just worked 12 days straight without a day off, I'm very tired indeed, so only managed a quick job tonight before I decided to quit whilst I was ahead... Fitting the new piston rings - what a satisfying job. I'd heard only good things about 'Grant' rings, so decided to explore their engineering brilliance first hand... I was not disappointed! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04195Medium.jpg[/IMG] They all came in their own little bag, with a detailed instruction, hint and tips sheet and are absolute top notch quality - highly recommended. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04184Medium.jpg[/IMG] The oil scraper ring is a 3 piece design with a spacer ring and two thin oil control rings. I spaced them as per the instructions and will be sure to set these at the 12 o'clock position on the piston when installed, with the others at the 4 and 8 o'clock position for equi-spacing. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04185Medium.jpg[/IMG] The two compression rings have individual cross sectional designs and have a top and a bottom marked on them. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04187Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04188Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04192Medium.jpg[/IMG] And there we are - ready for mounting to the rods.... I'm off this weekend too.... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04193Medium.jpg[/IMG] As you were!

Posted by: TomF - 02 October 2010 03:00:24
Looking good indeed. Did you buy those Grant rings new or are they one of your NOS treasures?

Posted by: Last Triumph - 02 October 2010 13:24:34
[quote=TomF]Looking good indeed. Did you buy those Grant rings new or are they one of your NOS treasures?[/quote] Good one... I actually had the choice to use original style ones, or the new 'Grant ones' I was tempted to go the original route, but in this case went for the most modern version I could. This is simply because the new design of the grant rings, especially the twin/thin oil scraper design is far superior to the original in this important area and will do a much better job of controlling compression and oil on the already part worn piston /cylinder clearances. If I was using new B/P's I'd use original rings, but as I'm using the original units, I'll give them all the help I can. For the record, after some phoning round, I found that VW Heritage stock them of all places and ther werene't particularly expensive. Beautifull items though.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 02 October 2010 20:43:14
Couple of jobs done this afternoon – first up, cleaning the oil cooler which was in a right mess. I soaked it in a bucket of steaming hot soapy degreaser to get the majority of the crud loosened off, which soon did the trick. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04207Medium.jpg[/IMG] Then it was time to clean the inside, and deep within the fins. I did this buy submerging it in cellulose thinners. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04210Medium.jpg[/IMG] Cleaning the inside was a very long winded and labour intensive process that involved filling the cooler with thinners, sloshing it about for ages, then pouring the contents through a filter so see what came out. I was amazed at how much debris was in there just waiting to destroy the bearings! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04216Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04219Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04217Medium.jpg[/IMG] I repeated this process over and over again using a little less thinners each time (got through half a gallon) and blasting it with the air line in between each flush to loosen any more crud. After about the 20th time, the thinners finally ran clear with no debris coming out at all. Scrubs up well! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04242Medium.jpg[/IMG] Next up was to do all the preparation for mounting the pistons. I’d stored each wrist pin in order and orientation so I could put them back exactly where they came from. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04203Medium.jpg[/IMG] They then sat in a bath of thinners for a deep clean… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04208Medium.jpg[/IMG] I used a thinners soaked tooth brush to clean the insides, followed by dragging a rag through them until they were spotless. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04209Medium.jpg[/IMG] Like most of the components in this engine, there is precious little wear in evidence. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04214Medium.jpg[/IMG] The circlips were trickier to clean and were caked in carbon deposits, so I used the oven cleaner again to great effect again – amazing stuff! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04211Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04213Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04218Medium.jpg[/IMG] At this point it is time to plan the order of assembly. To allow access to drive the pins into the pistons, you need to do this from the rear of the engine forwards towards the flywheel, as the bell housing hinders access from the front. So, using long nosed pliers, I inserted the forward most circlip into each piston, as a stop for when the pins a driven in. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04226Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04223Medium.jpg[/IMG] With that, I had another decision to make – do I install the pistons in the barrels first, then offer the entire assembly up to the rods, or so I fit the pistons to the rods ‘free’, then add the barrels afterwards. Given that I don’t have the VW style ring compressor, and that I could get much more control with everything loose on the bench, I opted to fit the pistons into the barrels first. Another advantage of doing it this way is that the barrels sitting over the case studs will act as a great support for the piston to keep it square when the pins are driven in. Next up was to thoroughly clean the cylinders to remove any grit and debris left over from the blasting and de-glazing process. Again, a hot soapy degreaser bath and a pan scourer did a great job of this. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04204Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04205Medium.jpg[/IMG] To prevent rusting, I quickly dried them off with a paper towel and the air line. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04206Medium.jpg[/IMG] Then coated then in a light film of oil, ready to receive the pistons and new rings. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04228Medium.jpg[/IMG] Out comes the ring compressor – a great tool! Make sure to oil the inside to allow the piston to slide out easily. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04230Medium.jpg[/IMG] With one last final check to make sure I had the gap in the rings 60 degrees apart with the oil control ring gap at the top, I carefully inserted the pistons into their rightful home using the soft end of a screw driver to gently tap them in making sure that nothing caught or snagged on the way in. Didn’t take much to get them snugly home. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04237Medium.jpg[/IMG] I pushed the piston up and down a couple of times in the cylinder to make sure everything moved as it should…. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04238Medium.jpg[/IMG] Then pushed them out so the hole for the wrist pin was clear, ready for mounting on the rods. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04240Medium.jpg[/IMG] At this point, I was called in for my dinner…. Stay tuned for more engine build action soon!

Posted by: Last Triumph - 03 October 2010 19:36:56
Some good progress today…. In preparation for installing the top end, I first needed to expand the pushrod tubes. To do this without damaging the ends, I inserted a neatly fitting socket, then carefully bent it round my thumb, then whilst keeping it bent, rotated round and round until it was expanded a few mm. Doing this a both ends lengthened them about 7-8mm which is enough to give the heads something to compres against to ensure a good seal. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04243Medium.jpg[/IMG] After a leak test which they all passed, to prevent them instantly rusting again, I sprayed them with some protective transit sealer which gives them a nice golden finish. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04245Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04248Medium.jpg[/IMG] Last look at the internals before we part company… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04253Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04256Medium.jpg[/IMG] Next up was to fit the gaskets that go at the bottom of the cylinders. These received a very light coat of K2. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04249Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04262Medium.jpg[/IMG] To help get things started, I pre engaged the wrist pins part way into the piston so they were ready to engage with the rods when mounted. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04263Medium.jpg[/IMG] And crunch time – I set the rod at TDC and carefully slid the assembly into position. I took quite a bit of juggling to get the rod in the perfect position to line up with the pin, but I got there in the end. I used a socket on an extension bar as a drift to tap them home. Only gentle taps were required. Once In position, I fitted the other circlip, then slid the piston home. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04264Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04265Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04267Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04268Medium.jpg[/IMG] One down, three to go… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04269Medium.jpg[/IMG] I won’t repeat the pictures for the remaining cylinders as it would be repetitive. Once I’d got the second cylinder in position, I checked the deck height and was pleased that they were exactly the same at 0.045”. Sorry to use imperial, but I left my metric feeler gauges in the friends bus at the VW Action show. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04271Medium.jpg[/IMG] Next up is to fit the lower cylinder deflector plates….. which I’d forgotten all about and found them abandoned on the shelf looking like this. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04257Medium.jpg[/IMG] The usual three stage clean began which left them looking like this. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04261Medium.jpg[/IMG] For the record, I am deliberately not having the tinware blasted and powder coated – remember I’m keeping everything patina’d and original as this is not a restoration, but a preservation project. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04272Medium.jpg[/IMG] On with the copper sealing ring at the top of the cylinders – the joint side of the ring goes towards the head. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04278Medium.jpg[/IMG] Next job is to install the pushrod tubes. The sealer was dry by now so I removed it from the ends of the tubes with brake cleaner, then fitted the seals, followed by some sealer and then pushed them into the case. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04276Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04280Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04281Medium.jpg[/IMG] Really exciting now – unlike Anne Boleyn, it was on with the head! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04294Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04295Medium.jpg[/IMG] It was the extended pushrod tubes that were preventing it from fully seating at this point, but they soon compress as the head is torqued down. For the second time today, I discovered that I’d neglected some preparation – the head bolts and washers were still crusty, rusty and oily from when they were removed. Yes, you guessed it…. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04286Medium-1.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04289Medium.jpg[/IMG] Then, for the third time today, I discovered that I’d neglected some preparation – I didn’t have any high temperature silicone sealant for the head bolts and washers that sit in the rocker box. Yet again, Dad came to the rescue and provided me with some Airbus approved high temp sealer – thanks Dad (again). [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04292Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04293Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04296Medium.jpg[/IMG] I applied some copper slip anti-seize compound to the base of the nuts to prevent future seizing and also to aid accurate torque measurements. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04297Medium.jpg[/IMG] The head bolts torque down in a set sequence that is far too dull to document here, but it starts at 7ft/lbs, and finishes at 27ft/lbs. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04298Medium.jpg[/IMG] At this point I put the camera down and did the exact same to the other side which eventually found me with something that resembles an engine!!!!! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04299Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04300Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04301Medium.jpg[/IMG] What can I say other than…. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04303Medium.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: ianmac - 03 October 2010 20:36:26
seriously nice job :wink: can't believe how good mr muscle over cleaner is:shock:

Posted by: TomF - 03 October 2010 22:31:08
Fantastic job mate, I'm hooked on this thread!

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 03 October 2010 23:48:08
Super job LT ,I have used Mr muscle for a few jobs over the years (caustic soda from the chemist works to)but my first experience ended up not being so good.My friend phoned me one day to tell me his new discovery of how Mr muscle cleans stained vynl headliners and makes them look like new ,so i tried it on my type 3 fastback with amazing results as my sunroof fastback now has a factory fresh headliner.One slight problem though as i discovered 3 years later when i took the windows out to repaint it.The headliner had turned into a giant poppadom and cracked with every touch because the chemicals had dried and shrunk the vynl :( . Apologies if you own that car now :oops:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 04 October 2010 20:57:34
Quick questions.... 1) What are the valve adjusting screw/tappets made from - just a hard material, or are they specifically case hardened? 2) Who in the UK for quick delivery, sells early adjustment screws? I tried all the usual suspects, KK, Heritage, M/C7 etc but they only do the '61- later ones. The reason I ask is that on closer inspection, some of them are worn to excess and need either replacing with new, or re-facing. If they are just an intrinsically hard material, I'll reface them on a stone (correction, Dad will reface them on a stone...) but if they are case hardened, thenthey're scrap as the wear will have broken through the shell. Any clues boys and girls?

Posted by: JD - 04 October 2010 23:45:42
Cracking stuff LT! :beer: BTW, vinegar is absolutely excellent for getting rust of things. Nut, bolts or whatever, just soak them in vinegar for a few days, the rust will turn to sludge and they come out clean as a whistle.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 05 October 2010 00:34:31
Remember the lovely fuel pump that I rebuilt…? [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04315Medium.jpg[/IMG] If you remember back, I misjudged the spacer block depth when I pre-loaded the pump diaphragm by between 0.5 – 1.0mm, which on the grand scale of things is splitting hairs. However, this has turned out for the best, as I remember thinking when I remounted it for the first time that the pump body was warped a little and although the gaskets would probably sort this out, I was conscious that pretty much all pump leaks are caused by cracked mounting blocks or warped bodies. So, as it was now time to fit the fuel pump again, I decided now was a good time to kill two birds with one stone and re-face the pump body which in turn will make the pump pre-load dimension just about perfect. This picture shows the extent of the bend in the mating face of the body, [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04314Medium.jpg[/IMG] As with the oil pump cover had housing, down came the mirror and out came the assorted wet n’ dry paper. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04316Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04318Medium.jpg[/IMG] I started with 180 grit to cut through the majority of the ‘meat’. Here you can see it cutting into the ‘deep’ ends. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04319Medium.jpg[/IMG] Then moved up to 320 and 600 grit until it was getting pretty close. You can see the middle section is still uncut. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04320Medium.jpg[/IMG] And then once I’d just about covered the entire perimeter, ground a perfect precision flat finish with 800, 1500 then finally 2,000 grit. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04321Medium.jpg[/IMG] At this point the pump body lay absolutely perfectly flat and I couldn’t get even my thinnest feeler gauge or a ‘wafer thin mint’ under it anywhere which was a big improvement from it rocking back and forth before I started. I’d mic’d up the thickness of the ends before I started so I could see how much material I’d removed when done and it was 0.8mm, which is perfect. Because all the components had been cleaned previously, they just needed a quick wipe over before installation. I used some more K2 on both sides of both gaskets after degreasing them, the mount block and the case and pump body to give good adhesion from the sealer. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04322Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04325Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04326Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04328Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04329Medium.jpg[/IMG] And finally I was able to mount it. I was terrified of over tightening the bolts and the factory do not give a torque specification other than to say tight, but not over-tight….. great. I carefully tightened them up bit by bit, side by side until I didn’t dare go any tighter – this turned out to be 10 N/m which isn’t over the top, but it sure squeezed all the sealer out the gap so should do the trick. It was interesting to note that I had to turn the motor over to allow the plunger to retract into the case enough to allow the bump body all the way home, and even then it is under just a tiny amount of pressure which I guess is to stop the plunger leaving contact with the cam on the dizzy drive and making a tapping noise. Anyway – one small step for LT…. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04330Medium.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 05 October 2010 00:58:35
Before you go to bed, have you checked that you can get the cylinder tin around the pump.I'm not sure as i put my pump on after the tin.Also did you know to check the pump pushrod length and stroke.It can all be adjusted with more gaskets especially as you have taken .8 of the flange face.I'll post the measurment tomorrow if you are concerened.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 05 October 2010 01:13:56
[quote=Sunroof53]Before you go to bed, have you checked that you can get the cylinder tin around the pump.I'm not sure as i put my pump on after the tin.Also did you know to check the pump pushrod length and stroke.It can all be adjusted with more gaskets especially as you have taken .8 of the flange face.I'll post the measurment tomorrow if you are concerened.[/quote] Don't do that to me at this time of night....! :lol: Just had to go out tothe garage, take the pump off again and check. I can report that the pushrod stroke is 29-34mm - as per the Bentley manual, so that's reassuring! These are the pics I took when installing the new diaphram and pre loading it to 35mm depression beneath the pump body. The cream coloured plastic block measured a fraction over 34mm and was as close to 35mm as I could find. I made up the gap with the steel rule. However, as was pointed out at the time, the steel rule was between the body and the jaws of the vice - so it wasn;t actually adding to the depth. Now I have removed about the same thickness as the rule from the pump body, it should all work out perfectly. Any difference will be so tiny, it'll be down to measuring how it runs in practice. Now.... I'm off to bed! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03130.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC03129.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: 55Kab - 05 October 2010 08:01:20
This is one of the best and most informative threads ever. Good work LT, the engine looks really good, first run not long off now eh?

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 05 October 2010 08:09:24
Either your wife has left you or she is very understanding.Either way i envy you. Tappet screws are M8x1mm on all but late model type 4s so dont see why you cant use later ones.I cant see the length being much different either .I will check when i wake up.(i am a night worker). When i first saw what you were doing i thought you must be an engineer as that kind of detail is drilled into you as an apprentice ,if you dont have it already.I was quite pleased when i saw your Dad is an engineer so was kind of half right.Here is a link to my favourite cartoon and says it all when it comes to being an engineer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmYDgncMhXw Mike

Posted by: Last Triumph - 05 October 2010 08:09:56
[quote=55Kab]This is one of the best and most informative threads ever. Good work LT, the engine looks really good, first run not long off now eh? [/quote] I wish.... I've bought some original 1 piece axle gaiters which require the removal of the axles to fit... ...and the thing with the gearbox is that it's quite dirty.... :lol:

Posted by: fpr936e - 05 October 2010 11:54:59
Im pleased you are going to look at the gearbox, good to get everything in the drive train looked at, especially the gearbox breather(think its got one) more importantly the rear bearings, seals and backplate breather on each side so it doesn't blow the wheel seal. Have you given the starter motor the treatment?

Posted by: Arminius - 05 October 2010 16:32:05
Continues to be an incredibly interesting thread - quick question, is the oven cleaner safe to use of cast parts? Does anyone the chemical composition / what agents are actually doing the cleaning?

Posted by: Kids taxi - 05 October 2010 20:55:49
I am really enjoying this thread and have now read it through from the beginning , I do love the tip about using mr Muscle ...Loves the jobs we all Hate :lol: . As for using it on cast parts I do know it contains a large percentage of caustic ,You can tell this when you use it on the oven :oops: :wink: . I would test it on a old part first unless other people already have :lol: Please keep up the good work LT Kt

Posted by: Last Triumph - 05 October 2010 21:08:51
[quote=fpr936e]Im pleased you are going to look at the gearbox, good to get everything in the drive train looked at, especially the gearbox breather(think its got one) more importantly the rear bearings, seals and backplate breather on each side so it doesn't blow the wheel seal. Have you given the starter motor the treatment? [/quote] The box is smooth as silk and engages all the gears with ease. The input shaft turns smoothly and freely. Fort his reason, other than change the oil and inspect as much as I can externally, I have no intention of splitiing the trans at this stage. I'll just give it a clean up, inspect the bearings ( I have a full set of NOS bearings and seal kits just in case) replace the output shaft seal whilst I'm at it too. Once the new 1 piece gaiters (same as a Porsche 356 :wink: ) are installed, I'll just put it all back together and hope the bugger runs. The started motor has cranked first time, every time so far, so will just be cleaned up a touch.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 05 October 2010 21:12:06
[quote=Arminius]Continues to be an incredibly interesting thread - quick question, is the oven cleaner safe to use of cast parts? Does anyone the chemical composition / what agents are actually doing the cleaning?[/quote] The pistons are cast and it worked a treat on those... although it did tarnish them a dull grey which needed a buff up afterwards to restore the lustre. What I would say is not to leave important or valuable stuff soaking in it for a long time - just in case. Nothing I've cleaned has had more than a 10 min bath which is all it has seemed to need. Please don't copy me - I don't want any reponsibility for disolved NOS 25hp heads or Okrasa cranks! :lol:

Posted by: Dakota - 05 October 2010 21:42:09
Hi what did you do to ensure no abrasive debris from the wet and dry paper didn't get tranferred via the grease into the motor, did you wash the pump out?

Posted by: Last Triumph - 06 October 2010 00:49:33
[quote=Dakota]Hi what did you do to ensure no abrasive debris from the wet and dry paper didn't get tranferred via the grease into the motor, did you wash the pump out?[/quote] Anticipating that, I recessed the grease so that it was well below the surface of the flange. I used plenty of water that washed away the fine grey slurry. The very small amount of debris collected around the very perimeter edge of the mating face stuck to the grease residue like glue. It was very local and was easy to 'spoon out' with a small spatular, which I then replaced with clean fresh grease... Don't worry - I thought of that one! A little bit more tonight before bed time... This was what remained of my old exhaust studs - note some of the welded nuts used to get them out! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04331Medium.jpg[/IMG] There is no way on earth that lot is going anywhere near my motor, so with a gesture to the future, I bought a full set of stainless steel stud hardware. The clever thing about these is that they have allen head ends which allow easy installation without the 'double nut' technique. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04334Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04335Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04336Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04338Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04341Medium.jpg[/IMG] That's better!! Thought it might be a good idea to block off all the access points to the motor to prevent any debris (or tools) falling in! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04345Medium.jpg[/IMG] Likewise, it felt great to put a new set of plugs in, correctly gapped of course. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04342Medium.jpg[/IMG] Hopfeully some more tomorrow...

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 06 October 2010 09:27:16
Great stuff Andy. You're on the home-straight now. The rest is a doddle and shouldn't take you very long to put it all back together.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 06 October 2010 11:04:53
[quote=Rich Oakley]Great stuff Andy. You're on the home-straight now. The rest is a doddle and shouldn't take you very long to put it all back together.[/quote] The lower tinware is in a right mess and is gonna take some serious cleaning. Subject to the postman arriving, I'd like to get the pushrods and rockers installed today and set the valve clearances etc.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 06 October 2010 12:03:21
News flash.... I've taken the decision to remove the stainless exhaust hardware as I've been 'educated' as to the issues concerning galvanic corrosion, galling and the issues of heat versus stainless versus alluminium - not a good combination. Fortunately the thread locker acted as a lubricant during assembly, so once I'd cracked them free, they came out without any galling and as they'd only been in a few hours, no galvanic corrosion had begun. I'm ordering some original VW steel ones. I;m sure they'll do another 53 years....

Posted by: Last Triumph - 06 October 2010 16:48:29
Anyone know who sells original 35mm VW exhasut studs with the smooth section 60% along their length? I've tried all the usual suspects, but people only stock the ones with the thread all the way down the length which is not as per original which is what I'm now shooting for in light of the stainless decision.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 06 October 2010 22:55:05
Had the day off work today so was able to make some more progress. The next area to address was the rocker assemblies. Although I’d already given them an initial bath in the jet fuel, I wanted them ‘cleaner’. I’ve been experimenting with other cleaning products to use as an alternative to the oven cleaner – not for any other reason than to have an alternative in the arsenal. I boxed everything up and took them to work and whilst the technicians were at lunch, I spent some time on the soft brass wire wheel we have fitted to our bench grinder. This did a great job of getting the carbon and ground in much off, although it did leave them looking a little dull. When I got home, I tried my next chemical – ‘Wonder Wheels’ alloy wheel cleaner. I can report that it works very well indeed – not as good as the oven cleaner, but not as aggressive so better for use on precision machines surfaces. It was excellent at cleaning up the rocker nuts, bolts and other hardware. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04343Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04352Medium.jpg[/IMG] More results pics in a minute! If you recall, I was intending to you the original valve adjusting screws as they didn’t look too worn, but on close inspection, a few of them were beyond service… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04347Medium-1.jpg[/IMG] I couldn’t find anyone selling 25/30hp adjustment screws – all the usual vendors just offered 40hp ‘61> items. Some research however told me that they are in fact the same and the only difference is that the locking nut on the later versions is a 13mm nut rather than a 14mm nut. So I crossed my fingers and ordered a set of later ones which thankfully I can confirm are identical to the early ones. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04348.jpg[/IMG] They were however covered in a dark greasy coating that I didn’t want getting into the motor – so, as per usual…. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04351Medium.jpg[/IMG] And the results of all this rocker cleaning? [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04356Medium.jpg[/IMG] With some careful lubrication, they went together a treat! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04365Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04369Medium.jpg[/IMG] I can’t express how pleased I am with how they turned out – although they owe me about 6 hours in total….! Remember these from some distant cleaning frenzy of yester-year? [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04373Medium.jpg[/IMG] The push rods have to go inside the motor before the rocker assemblies can be mounted. For those that don’t know, Volkswagen inserted wooden dowels inside the early pushrods to control oil flow and you can hear them rattling around if you shake them when they are clear of oil. However, a couple of them had become a little lodged down one end, and when I blew down the pushrod hole, it was clear that there was a restriction as the air passed through much slower than the others. To cure this, I squirted brake cleaner down through the hole then shook the heck out of the tube until the dowel came free which cured the problem and released the restriction. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04374Medium.jpg[/IMG] Naturally, before installation, I filled them with oil to give things a head start when it first fires up. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04377Medium.jpg[/IMG] And covered the ends in assembly lube to help the cam. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04375Medium.jpg[/IMG] Thanks to the careful set up of the cam follower guide plate inside the block before I put it together, the followers slid home perfectly with satisfying precision. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04376Medium.jpg[/IMG] The 14mm mounting bolts are torqued to 14 ft/lbs. Doesn’t the second picture look fantastic? [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04378Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04384Medium.jpg[/IMG] Next up is to set the valve clearances to 0.004”. The mini ratchet ring spanner made this a nice job to do, although in true LT style, I obsessed about this for ages to get them perfect, even knowing I’ll be doing them again when the motor has run a little. Oh well… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04400Medium.jpg[/IMG] At this point it is worth mentioning that the ideal set up for the adjustment screw to valve stem relationship is to have them off set a little. This eccentricity ensures the valve turns during operation to keep an even mating surface at the valve seat. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04379Medium.jpg[/IMG] Next up was to mount the crank pulley – and I was sure not to forget the pulley tin that must be mounted first!!! I soon discovered that the tinware screws were not exactly clean… but fear not – they are now sparkling! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04387Medium.jpg[/IMG] The front pulley tinware was also a mess, but came up well after a jet fuel bath and scrub. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04388Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04390Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04392Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04393Medium.jpg[/IMG] To remove the corrosion deep within the pulley groove, I gave it a gentle brush out with this handy drill attachment. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04397Medium.jpg[/IMG] The pulley came up nice and clean too. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04395Medium.jpg[/IMG] Note the screw thread on the inner shaft that is designed to return oil to the crankcase. Nice design. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04396Medium.jpg[/IMG] Making sure the wave washer is not forgotten, I torqued up the nut to 85ft /lbs using the flywheel lock tool that I must say is most splendid! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04086.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04398Medium.jpg[/IMG] Last job before I called it a day was to fit the oil cooler. This was already clean from a few days ago, so it was just a case of fitting the new seals which fit snugly into the recess’ in the top of the case. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04402Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04403Medium.jpg[/IMG] Leaving me with something looking an awful lot like a 30hp motor! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04406Medium.jpg[/IMG] Getting there slowly.

Posted by: Dakota - 06 October 2010 23:51:28
Hi try a porsche main dealer for your stud needs as 911/356 exhaust studs come through with a solid middle section and should be fine on length, you could try Roger bray even.

Posted by: Arminius - 06 October 2010 23:52:27
'Cleanliness is next to Godliness' and all that....someone needs to condense the techniques used in this thread for reference, an exemplary effort, WEll DONE!!!

Posted by: TomF - 07 October 2010 01:37:23
Interesting about stainless exhaust studs, Heritage only sell stainless ones!

Posted by: 51reutter - 07 October 2010 01:59:43
Congrats for an amazing work, I'm very impressed by your dedication to cleaning :shock: well done. Were do you get all the correct info, books? cheers

Posted by: Last Triumph - 07 October 2010 08:14:44
[quote=51reutter]Congrats for an amazing work, I'm very impressed by your dedication to cleaning :shock: well done. Were do you get all the correct info, books? cheers[/quote] I've always wanted to rebuild a VW engine and already own several generic books. However, the absolute bible in terms of tolerances, specifications, clearances, wear limits etc has come from the original Bentley workshop manual which is the most wonderful publication.

Posted by: spillo491 - 07 October 2010 19:37:12
Wonderfull job !!! You should write a book !! What about brakes and front axle ?

Posted by: Last Triumph - 07 October 2010 21:18:46
[quote=spillo491]Wonderfull job !!! You should write a book !! What about brakes and front axle ?[/quote] As brakes are a safety item, I've already replaced the master cylinder with a NOS item and have a full set of ATE NOS wheel cylinders and flexi hoses along with solid lines. The front axle seems fine and can be a post MOT/registration project - it'll just need a clean up from what I can see. Don't get the wrong impression - the cleanliness of the motor build is simply because that's how engines are supposed to be built in my book. The rest of the car won't be cleaned to the same degree as this isn't a restoration project, it's a preservation project and I want to keep as much of the original patina in tact as possible whilst only replacing what is safety related or essential maintanence.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 08 October 2010 00:12:30
I was working late tonight so only had time for a quck tinker... I cleaned and fitted the oil pressure switch, which for the record, changed from a screw terminal to spade terminal in '55, so yes, it's the correct one. Cleaned up well. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04421Medium.jpg[/IMG] The oil pressure switch has a tapered thread is nt meant to be screwed in all the way to the end stop as this just puts strain on the case which with a little heat expansion can crack the case! The manuals say to add a little thread lock/sealant and nip it up medium tight, but don;t keep going expecting it to get tighter as it won't, it'll just keep on going... Apparently, you should still be able to see a few threads when it is in far enough, assuming you don't have a thread that has already been over tightened. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04424Medium.jpg[/IMG] I cleaned up the small tin that sits under the fuel pump and fitted it next. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04426Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04428Medium.jpg[/IMG] The thermostat was next, and it was in a right sorry state. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04431Medium.jpg[/IMG] With this being a soft brass, I didn't want to put any harsh chemicals near it so just gave it a bath and scrub in the jet fuel wich cleaned it up well enough.... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04434Medium.jpg[/IMG] Well enough for some.... but not for my level of OCD, that's for sure! before I went crazy cleaning it, I thought I'd better test it, gently clamped the mount in a vice and waved the heat gun in front of rit for a little wheil until I watched the bellows expand nice and evenly... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04435Medium.jpg[/IMG] ..... which gave me an idea! With the bellows open, it was a great oppertunity to get in the gaps between each fold and have a good clean. I'll spare you the details, but with some burnt finger tips as it was still hot, an oily rag and a lot of frantic rubbing with a little polish, I ended up with what is probably the most shiny original thermostat there has ever been. Sorry guys, I just couldn't help it! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04437Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04438Medium.jpg[/IMG] Night all!

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 08 October 2010 08:03:09
[quote=Last Triumph]I was working late tonight so only had time for a quck tinker... I cleaned and fitted the oil pressure switch, which for the record, changed from a screw terminal to spade terminal in '55, so yes, it's the correct one.[/quote] LT,Where did you get that information? I am not sure(guess around 1960) when it was but i had an all original 58 beetle with not one spade terminal on the whole car and my original vw manual from 1958 is not showing the spade type .Its only a small detail i know and have a spade type on my 53 only because i cannot find a working one .I have got 4 and they have all failed closed circuit. Mike PS thermostat looks nice but taking it too far [-x .You will be lining the slots up in the tin screws next ,or at least fighting the urge now i have mentioned it :wink: Joking aside you can still buy those tin screws new and zinc coated just like the originals.The slots may line up better to :!: :wink:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 08 October 2010 08:20:55
The Bently manual says that from 1955 the switched to the spade terminal, but the generic photo they show in the book is of the early type. I've also had this confirmed by an old boy at one of the shows who had a '56 that had been stored in a museum much of it's life which also had the spade terminal. I'm using all the original nuts, bolts, washers and fsteners - including the tinware screws - only replacing what is worn out of spec, or damaged / broken beyond repair. Preservation, not restoration. Just couldn't help it on the thermostat - still the original and nothing wrong with cleaning a component - only the same as waxing your paintwork, only this just happened to be a thermostat.... :lol:

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 08 October 2010 11:03:32
Interesting, I don’t doubt what you say but I have certainly owned ’56, ’58 and ’60 beetles that have had oil pressure switches with screw terminals. The wiring on my present ’57 has a connection for a screw terminal, not a spade connector. I had always assumed that the spade connectors were universally introduced in August ’60 for the ’61 model year. But I may be wrong. This continues to be a fantastic thread by the way, and essential reading! It'd be great to see it published as a "how to" manual with all the pictures, I'm sure it would be well received. Mike 8)

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 08 October 2010 13:52:38
[quote=Mike Peckham]Interesting, I don’t doubt what you say but I have certainly owned ’56, ’58 and ’60 beetles that have had oil pressure switches with screw terminals. The wiring on my present ’57 has a connection for a screw terminal, not a spade connector. I had always assumed that the spade connectors were universally introduced in August ’60 for the ’61 model year. But I may be wrong. This continues to be a fantastic thread by the way, and essential reading! It'd be great to see it published as a "how to" manual with all the pictures, I'm sure it would be well received. Mike 8) [/quote] Correct Mike, spade connectors were introduced in Aug '60.

Posted by: harveypj - 08 October 2010 13:55:18
Must admit, I was thinking similar Mike. I believe my 58 is still fitted with its original switch and that is screwed (in a nice way:lol:). and as you say I too have not found any other spade terminals. The switch is also a dull alloy colour (raw) and the insulated bit is the older bakerlite material. Maybe LT, yours has been replaced at some time in the past, the golden colour and moulded plastic insulation does look to be slightly later period? Awsome thread LT, like many, I have to get my daily fix. I think you should capture the first restart of your finished engine on film, I for one would love to see it burst in to life once again8) Pete:d 'Edit' you jumped in there quick Rich, I've got to learn to type faster:lol:

Posted by: 55Kab - 08 October 2010 15:11:10
[quote=Last Triumph] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04438Medium.jpg[/IMG] [/quote] ^^^Fantastic. Evil Ben would be proud of you... :lol:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 08 October 2010 21:28:52
Guys - just excuse me for a moment whilst I wipe the last few crumbs of humble pie from around my mouth..... For the life of me I cannot find the reference material for the spade connector oil pressure switch in any of my books, yet I swear I didn;t dream it... However, enough people with far more knowledge and experience have corrected me on this issue so I have bitten the bullet and just shelled out for a correct screw terminal item. Oh, and a screw terminal brake light switch too! :lol:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 09 October 2010 22:14:12
Made some more decent progress today, so buckle up for a treat of a trip into automotive astonishment! Seriously though – this is what happened today… First things first, I finally managed to find the original and correct exhaust studs and hardware with the blank band in the middle – not from a VW source but direct from Porsche as they used the same component on the 356 and early 911’s. I feel somehow ‘cleansed’… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04484Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04486Medium.jpg[/IMG] Got the jewel of the thermostat in its mounting bracket and mounted to the block. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04439Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04470Medium.jpg[/IMG] The thermostat pushes a rod that runs up between the cylinders and links to a mechanism that controls the amount of cooling air supplied to the fan. Here is a sequence that shows before and after cleaning, then assembly. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04446Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04452Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04454Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04469Medium.jpg[/IMG] Next up was the cylinder head tinware which was in a right old mess. The gunk was so heavily caked on, the most efficient method of cleaning was to used a plastic scraper to remove the majority of the thick stuff, then give them a bath in the jet fuel, then a final degrease and clean in a foam bath. The temptation to get all the tinware blasted a powder coated was very strong, but then I’d not be following the plan to preserve rather than restore, so I’m leaving it well alone. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04457Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04460Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04471Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04464Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04463Medium.jpg[/IMG] The heater channels were next and they were equally as grotty as the head tins. These took hours to get clean as most of the filth was literally backed on, hard and crusty and wouldn’t dissolve in any of my cleaners and I didn’t want to risk taking any more paint off by using the oven cleaner, so it was literally a case of scrubbing until they eventually came up clean. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04477Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04474Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04476Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04479Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04480Medium.jpg[/IMG] I was in a bit of a quandary about what to do with the bare metal and light corrosion, and as I’ve said, I didn’t want to be painting, coating or covering anything up. As the metal work is actually perfectly sound, I decided to give them a coating of the transit sealer I’ve discussed earlier in the thread. It takes about 30 – 40 minutes to dry, then forms and tough yet flexible amber coloured protective coating that keeps moisture out. I’m all too aware that it will attract dirt and dust, but as it is only on the external surfaces, I’ll live with that in the interests of preservation. I’m sure they’ve got another 53 years left in them… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04483Medium.jpg[/IMG] You’ve got to love original tinware – it fits perfectly! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04494Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04495Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04493Medium.jpg[/IMG] Apparently, the support mount from the case to the top of the oil cooler is a rare item and only fitted for a few months in late ’56 to mid ’57. Obviously I’ll need to swing it out the way when the fan housing goes on. It mounts through a hole in the housing direct to the cooler for additional support. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04490Medium.jpg[/IMG] And finally – this is how I left it for the evening. I sense I’m on the home straight now and the finish line will soon be looming! I’m really, really pleased! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04491Medium-1.jpg[/IMG] Thanks for sticking with me!

Posted by: Last Triumph - 10 October 2010 15:06:17
Knock, knock......? Anyone home?

Posted by: TomF - 10 October 2010 15:53:14
This thread is terrible. I went out and had a nice 1500 built for my '55 the other day, very happy with it and then I see this thread and it makes start going "oh I should really rebuild the 30hp engine and stick it in" In all serious, nice work mate, are you taking this car to Bad Camberg? (I'm sure it would fit in well there!)

Posted by: Last Triumph - 10 October 2010 21:05:53
[quote=TomF]This thread is terrible. I went out and had a nice 1500 built for my '55 the other day, very happy with it and then I see this thread and it makes start going "oh I should really rebuild the 30hp engine and stick it in" In all serious, nice work mate, are you taking this car to Bad Camberg? (I'm sure it would fit in well there!)[/quote] I don't know anything about Bad Camberg, please educate me?

Posted by: JD - 10 October 2010 21:47:06
I really like this. Clean it up, bolt it back on. Great!

Posted by: TomF - 10 October 2010 22:31:41
[quote=Last Triumph]I don't know anything about Bad Camberg, please educate me?[/quote] https://www.lottermann-veteranen-treffen.de/ Bi-yearly show in Bad Camberg, Germany (near Cologne). Aimed generally towards your stock and rare Volkswagens. Going to be heading over there next year (see the Bad Camberg thread on here in the Vintage Shows section) and as I say, I think your car would fit nicely in with all the other cars!

Posted by: Last Triumph - 11 October 2010 13:34:09
As the motor is gaining more and more weight and all the underneath work has been completed, I took the decision to remove it from the Empi stand and rest it on my own dolly. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure the precision coded welders at Empi’s China division are at the top of their game and are turning offers away from submarine contractors on a daily basis, but…. You get the idea. The rear tin was next up for a bath and with the usual amount of scrubbing in various mixtures, came up well. I sprayed the rear of it with the sealer spray to cover any areas where the paint had chipped off. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04516Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04518Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04520Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04521Medium.jpg[/IMG] Note the little hole in the bottom corner that the solid fuel line passes through. This has a rubber grommet to stop the fuel line getting damaged. I’ve seen some cars with this missing and wince, where otheres have jury rigged it with a small section of flexi hose on top of the solid one as it passes through the hole. I’ve got a new proper grommet to go in there. At this point, there is no particular build order as such and parts can be added to taste, so I gave the oil filler and breather a bath and fitted them next. The plastic grommet where the breather drain exits the tinware has survived very well indeed, as had the seal where the filler bowl fits the genny stand. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04511Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04507Medium.jpg[/IMG] The oven cleaner did a great job on the oil filler cap, but sadly the original cork gasket was more brittle and fragile than my last bank statement. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04501Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04504Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04515Medium.jpg[/IMG] I’m sure I can stretch to a new one…. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04513Medium.jpg[/IMG] I next turned my attention to the fan housing and ancillaries which thankfully weren’t as dirty….. well, that’s what I thought until I took the fan out and saw inside the housing! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04528Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04531Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04532Medium.jpg[/IMG] I can now confidently report that cleaning the inside of a fan housing with all it’s vanes, nooks and crannies has now made it into the top ten of my all time least favourite things to do – even surpassing such classics like licking up spilt battery acid or an letting my wife pluck wayward eyebrow hairs whilst wrestling with me in a head lock… At one point I found my self wearing rubber gloves and up to my elbows wincing and straining, glad that I didn’t choose gynaecology as a career. The results were worth the effort though. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04545Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04543Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04546Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04549Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04548Medium.jpg[/IMG] This was all achieved with the jet fuel, bucket and a variety of peculiar looking brushes that would look more at home in a vending machine repair man’s tool box than mine, but it got the job done. To remove the last traces of fine matter along with the smell and greasiness of the jet fuel, I gave it one last scrub and soak in a hot and soapy ‘bin bath’. My wife took one look at me and suggest I’d better jump in there with it before she’d let me back in the house…. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04555Medium.jpg[/IMG] The air control ring got the same treatment. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04498Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04499Medium.jpg[/IMG] As did the fan and backing plate…. Fan took some scrubbing to get each individual blade clean, I can tell you! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04534Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04541Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04553Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04552Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04550Medium.jpg[/IMG] I’ve still got the dynamo to clean up so assembly will have to wait a little. Next up was the intake manifold – which brings me to a quandary….. From the factory they were either a grey or black finish. Mine was black judging from the few tiny little dots of paint that were left on it here and there. 99.9% of all the paint had long since burnt / flaked / worn off over the years and left it looking very sorry for itself – just like pretty much every other inlet manifold I’ve seen. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04523Medium.jpg[/IMG] None of that stuff is ‘lovely patina’ – it’s just grime and rust, plain and simple and I didn’t know what to do. I couldn’t leave it that way, and there wasn’t enough original black paint to try and save. I decided to give it a bath in the oven cleaner, which for the record does a fantastic job of clearing the insides out as the foam action expands and creeps from one end to the other like drain cleaner. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04527Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04537Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04536Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04535Medium.jpg[/IMG] I let it sit for a while with a few more applications of the foam and then gave it a good hose down outside which left me with this little beauty. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04538Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04540Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/DSC04539Medium.jpg[/IMG] Now, the question is what to do with it….. As I say, there was no paint left to save – do I leave it to rust and tarnish, do I give it a light coat of satin black high temp paint, do I get it blasted and powder coated in original black ???? I welcome any ideas and feedback. What I don’t want to do is have this immaculate ‘restored’ inlet manifold sticking out like a sore thumb in the middle of the engine bay….

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 11 October 2010 14:34:31
Manifold looks very nice and rust free to, super job !.Personally i would get the manifold stove enamelled black as powdercoat will burn off at the preheat tubes,it will soon dull up to match the rest.On my own car i just used a 2 pack black over an etch primer but the shiny finish was'nt a problem as i did the rest of the tin as well.You may find that transit spray you put on the lower tin will smell really bad when you use the heater,they do get quite hot . Mike

Posted by: Last Triumph - 11 October 2010 17:03:09
[quote=Sunroof53]Manifold looks very nice and rust free to, super job !.Personally i would get the manifold stove enamelled black as powdercoat will burn off at the preheat tubes,it will soon dull up to match the rest.On my own car i just used a 2 pack black over an etch primer but the shiny finish was'nt a problem as i did the rest of the tin as well.You may find that transit spray you put on the lower tin will smell really bad when you use the heater,they do get quite hot . Mike [/quote] Cheers Mike, I only used the sealer spray on the outside of the channels - the insides are degreased and clean. I don't mid if the paint burns off and tarnishes - it'll look authentic then! :lol: I thought stove enameling was just another term for powder coating??? What's the difference?

Posted by: harveypj - 11 October 2010 19:24:13
I use PJ1 fast black engine and case paint, it does not need undercoat as it cures on and dries semi flat. I have found you can polish it to an authentic aged look. It is normaly aimed at the motor cycle market. They do a matt exhaust version to (higher temp) [ATTACH]4966[/Attach]

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 12 October 2010 07:50:37
[quote=Last Triumph]Cheers Mike, I only used the sealer spray on the outside of the channels - the insides are degreased and clean. I don't mid if the paint burns off and tarnishes - it'll look authentic then! :lol: I thought stove enameling was just another term for powder coating??? What's the difference?[/quote] For powder coating the part is statically charged to attract the powder which is then heated to melt the powder and form the paint.Stove enalling uses traditional solvent based paints but is cured in an oven.Powder coat is cheaper but results seem to vary on who you take it to and what preparation they do.Its really a matter of choice but no matter what you do, get it blasted first especially if you are using stuff from a rattle can .I relise it will be frustrating after the time you spent cleaning but it really does make the difference to whether the paint stays on long term.The last manifold i sprayed i used an etch primer ,and a bog standard two pack black.The etch primer really helps keep the paint on the ally jacket which in the past always seemed to come off first. Too many choices i know but whatever you do get it blasted first. Mike

Posted by: Last Triumph - 12 October 2010 09:23:13
[quote=Sunroof53]For powder coating the part is statically charged to attract the powder which is then heated to melt the powder and form the paint.Stove enalling uses traditional solvent based paints but is cured in an oven.Powder coat is cheaper but results seem to vary on who you take it to and what preparation they do.Its really a matter of choice but no matter what you do, get it blasted first especially if you are using stuff from a rattle can .I relise it will be frustrating after the time you spent cleaning but it really does make the difference to whether the paint stays on long term.The last manifold i sprayed i used an etch primer ,and a bog standard two pack black.The etch primer really helps keep the paint on the ally jacket which in the past always seemed to come off first. Too many choices i know but whatever you do get it blasted first. Mike[/quote] Thanks for the info. As daft as it sounds - I'm not looking for a perfect finish, nor one that will stay looking new for ever. A tarnished, peeled and aged look is actually what I want and I guess that'll hapen sooner with less prep and a more normal type paints. :lol: If it all goes wrong, it;s no big issue to get it re-done in the future.

Posted by: TEXAS PETE - 12 October 2010 09:50:13
I’m pretty sure the alloy jacket should remain alloy. I’m not sure about the black and grey debate on the rest of the manifold.. as you say it will be a shame to have anything overly ‘’clean’’ Lovely work!:d

Posted by: TomF - 12 October 2010 12:53:59
I think you should leave it as it is! If you were rebuilding the motor back in the 60's I think you would have probably cleaned it and put it back on, because as you would have witnessed from the factory, all paint just burns off and looks rubbish. I would have thought the alloy would soon dull down when fitted to the car.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 12 October 2010 20:13:08
Manifolds were painted black all over ,its just that the ally bit looses its paint first so it appears that it was never painted in the first place.Not sure though when they changed to grey i have never seen a 30hp engine in original paint that had a grey one but thats not to say that spares made in the 60s were not. Mike

Posted by: Last Triumph - 12 October 2010 23:39:22
I'll give it a quick blow over with some primer then satin black like I did with the coil, then let exhaust heat and nature take it's course. Spent the last two days unblocking the heat risers! Don't even go there with the old clutch cable technique lark.... :shock: Having one snap and get stuck in there is no fun at all. Getting it out afterwards is even less fun. :roll:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 15 October 2010 01:04:32
Right then – the last few days… The big hold up initially was the heat risers on the inlet manifold. I’d have loved to use the clutch cable technique, but sadly didn’t have one lying about so improvised instead. I took a length of piano wire and bent the end over a little to act as a ‘spade’ and rounded the end off so it didn’t damage the inside of the tube on the thinner bends etc. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04559Medium.jpg[/IMG] I tried the other end in the drill chuck but it wouldn’t grip tightly enough so I died a thread on the end… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04556Medium.jpg[/IMG] …then drilled and tapped a thread on the end of an old exhaust stud… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04557Medium.jpg[/IMG] …which gave the drill chuck something to grip against. I also made sure that the drill turned in the direction that only tightened the threads up. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04558Medium.jpg[/IMG] I then inserted the rod up the rise until I found the blockage and set to work. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04562Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04560Medium.jpg[/IMG] This was going great guns, apart from all the black soot that poured out….. right up to the part when the rod snapped as I’d gone too fast and over heated it! Did it snap on the outside where I could grip it and pull it out? Nope. All I can say is that I tried very hard to get it out and initially failed. I even tried poking more stuff up inside to push it out the other side and broke something else off in there too!!! I really wanted to cry, but me being me, I got my “Absolutely will not stop!" Terminator head on and eventually (like after two days) got them out. This was a very exasperating and tedious task but I got there in the end and after a few swills with oven cleaner, followed by celly thinners, got it clear as a whistle. I didn’t get andy pics of my efforts as I’d have likely just thrown the camera over the fence in frustration! Anyway – I decided to give the manifold a light coat of etch primer followed my some satin black which I’m sure with the hot and oily environment of the engine bay will weather in very quickly! Here’s the result. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04601Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04605Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04602Medium.jpg[/IMG] Before I could start mounting the manifold, I needed to get the exhaust mounted – tissues at the ready guys, here it comes! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04585Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04582Medium.jpg[/IMG] It was a most ‘convenient discovery’ to find a NOS fitting kit to go with the NOS exhaust and heater boxes!!! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04591Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04598Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04592Medium.jpg[/IMG] NOS tinware screws anyone!!!!! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04595Medium.jpg[/IMG] The real deal! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04587Medium.jpg[/IMG] How cool was it to find an old part number written on a piece of paper stuck inside one of the heater boxes! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04626Medium.jpg[/IMG] Actually, other than the repair pipes being welded on, the rest of the original heater boxes are perfect, so one day I’ll strip them, get them blasted and powder coated and rebuild them. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04606Medium.jpg[/IMG] And so – back in the garage… Nice new gaskets and some anti seize copper grease, which I’m sure will just burn off and become useless, but I’m in the habit so what the heck. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04611Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04612Medium.jpg[/IMG] Correct spring washers and on she went! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04614Medium.jpg[/IMG] Ta-da! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04618Medium.jpg[/IMG] Savour the goodness….. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04619Medium.jpg[/IMG] I simply couldn’t resist a shot with my genuine TDE tail pipes (wonderful quality items and better than ANY I’ve seen from anywhere else) [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04625Medium.jpg[/IMG] Next up was the inlet manifold which uses a crush gasket on the inlet port, and a normal gasket on the heat riser. Note that the correct order is to tighten the heat riser bolts first, then the actual manifold bolts to seat the crush gasket. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04620Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04621Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04622Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04623Medium.jpg[/IMG] It’s much easier to get access to the rear carb nut with the fan housing out the way so my previously rebuilt carb went on next – starting to take shape… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04624Medium.jpg[/IMG] Next up I cleaned, but resisted the temptation to polish, the three service lines – 2 x fuel lines and the vacuum line and fitted them up. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04632Medium.jpg[/IMG] I made sure I fitted the correct and very important rubber grommet that stops the fuel line chafing as it passes through the rear engine tin. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04628Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04630Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04631Medium.jpg[/IMG] I cleaned up the ignition wire rail and holders and fitted them next. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04633Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04634Medium.jpg[/IMG] Which finally allowed me to install the dizzy cap and ignition wires, making sure the spark plug dust caps were neatly in place. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04636Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04638Medium.jpg[/IMG] Won’t be long before this little lot is covered up for good… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04637Medium.jpg[/IMG] And this is how I left it for tonight… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04641Medium.jpg[/IMG] Last few jobs are to clean up the rear tin, strip clean and inspect the dynamo, reassemble the entire fan shroud and ancillaries and mount to the motor, fit the heater boxes, clean and fit the rocker covers then give everything a final check and ‘once over’ to make sure I’ve not over looked anything silly. Not long now chaps!

Posted by: Arminius - 15 October 2010 01:56:05
Looks fantastic! Dont know if you have heard of Gibbs Brand Penetrant? i found out about it through some of the US hot rodding sites, there are now UK distributors - is incredible stuff, not just as a penetrating fluid but for protecting original finishes, im using it on master cylinders / brake lines etc, also inhibits rust.No affiliation to it google it and see examples of its use if youve got a minute.

Posted by: 55Kab - 15 October 2010 07:28:36
Great attention to detail as ever LT. I'm sure this thing will fire up within seconds of fuel getting to the head's.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 15 October 2010 09:06:51
[quote=55Kab]Great attention to detail as ever LT. I'm sure this thing will fire up within seconds of fuel getting to the head's. [/quote] I do hope so.... I must admit I've got huge anxieties about the first fire up - I dred it making a horrible knocking noise, or leaking loads of oil from somewhere etc... I'lll do a full video and post it if people would like to see?

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 15 October 2010 09:52:35
[quote=Last Triumph] I'lll do a full video and post it if people would like to see?[/quote] Absolutely! :wink: Mike

Posted by: 55Kab - 15 October 2010 10:58:27
[quote=Mike Peckham]Absolutely! :wink: Mike [/quote] x2

Posted by: Last Triumph - 16 October 2010 00:50:25
Bit of today's action... Cleaned up the rear tin and fitted it - looks a lot more complete now, although I'll have to take it off to fit the motor. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04644Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04647Medium.jpg[/IMG] Next up was a job I'd been putting off for ages as I knew it was going to be even less interesting than 'Cats'.... the rocker boxes and that damn stuborn gasket that simply wouldn't budge. I eventually hit it with the oven cleaner which to be fair did soften it a bit allowing me to get most of it off afterwards with a brass wire brush and pan scourer. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04648Medium.jpg[/IMG] The rest came off with simple abraision, and lots of it - nasty stuff. Here are the clean and prepared covers and bales. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04649Medium.jpg[/IMG] I hung the new gaskets off the cupboard door knobs and coted one side with the K2 sealant..... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04651Medium.jpg[/IMG] Which once has gone tacky, allows it to stick to the cover whilst you line them up for fitment. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04653Medium.jpg[/IMG] Just before I fitted them, I re-oiled all the rocker gear to give it a head start at initial fire up, then degreased the mating surface of the head where the gasket sits. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04652Medium.jpg[/IMG] Bingo - safe and sound. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04655Medium.jpg[/IMG] Next up was the dynamo. I decided that it'd be rude to just clean it and re-fit it, so I stripped it down for a look see. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04646Medium.jpg[/IMG] Pretty grotty in there so glad I did. Getting the bearings off was a real pain in the ass. The one on the fan end is locked into the end plate with a spring washer, so comes off as an entire unit - with lots and lots of force.... I had to support the end plate from underneath between two blocks of wood, then drift the armature shaft out after heating it with a heat gun. Came out eventually. The bearing at the pulley end was not going anywhere. There is nowhere to lever, hammer or pull, so I fiddled and scratched around for an hour or so, then resorted to the best tool I've ever had - I rang Dad..... Great thing about visiting Dad is that I always come away with more than I arrived with and my tools department swells further still. I must pop round more often. Anyway, after taking some heavyweight fatherly abuse for a while, I produced the armature complete with stuck bearing and watched his brain grind into RAF style action. No sooner had I swiped a few more tools, he'd reached into one of his many drawers and pulled out a device that must have been made when Ivan Hurst was a lad. Anyway - off came the bearing, making me feel useless and small at the same time. Back home, here is the exploded view of all the components that make up the armature. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04662Medium.jpg[/IMG] For some comedy value, check out how 'seasoned' the comutator is! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04665Medium.jpg[/IMG] I think, maybe at some point in the past, a little tiny spec of dirt might have crept in there along the way! Not to worry - plenty of meat left on the bone and I have plans for it tomorrow which should see it all fit for service again. Before I sign off - the bearings are long past their best, but I can't imagine that their open design is still the best route these days? Surely a 2SR double rubber seal or a ZZ fibre seal bearing would be more suitable? What do people generally do for replacement (upgraded) bearings?

Posted by: beefykeefy - 16 October 2010 03:13:47
Of all the threads that I've read on this and other 'lesser' sites, yours sir is by far the finest. :beer: :beer: :beer:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 16 October 2010 04:05:40
[quote=Last Triumph] Before I sign off - the bearings are long past their best, but I can't imagine that their open design is still the best route these days? Surely a 2SR double rubber seal or a ZZ fibre seal bearing would be more suitable? What do people generally do for replacement (upgraded) bearings?[/quote] I have used 2ZZ C3 bearings.The C3 basically means it has greater radial clearance for the balls(allows for expansion) for high speed applications. Mike

Posted by: Last Triumph - 16 October 2010 12:57:50
[quote=beefykeefy]Of all the threads that I've read on this and other 'lesser' sites, yours sir is by far the finest. :beer: :beer: :beer: [/quote] Why thank you old bean - might one of those beers be for me? :lol:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 16 October 2010 12:59:55
[quote=Sunroof53]I have used 2ZZ C3 bearings.The C3 basically means it has greater radial clearance for the balls(allows for expansion) for high speed applications. Mike[/quote] Cheers Mike... Is there a 'preferred' source? Also, I trust that I still need to install the original dust cover rings if for no other reason than for correct spacing?

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 16 October 2010 23:08:43
Its just a case of finding a local supplier .The bearing is not unique to VW so it should be easy to find .SKF,FAG,Timken are all good makes and there's nothing between any of of them.As you said LT keep spacing as it was. https://www.yell.com/s/bearings-moreton-wirral.html Mike

Posted by: Last Triumph - 17 October 2010 00:40:11
First thing this morning I called in on my brother in law as he has some ‘equipment’ in his attic. He is an electronics genius and works for the ministry of defence in design and research. Whilst I spend lots of time in the garage playing with cars, he spends time in the attic designing and building lasers…. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSCF2223Medium.jpg[/IMG] Fortunately, he has a small hobby lathe which was perfect for re-facing the commutator in the dynamo. The chuck was able to hold it perfectly true without the need for a running centre. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSCF2222Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSCF2224Medium.jpg[/IMG] We ended up removing just under 0.75mm from the surface to get down to the deepest grooves, but there is plenty left to play with without going near the bottom of the insulation grooves. To clean the burs and crud out of the grooves, I ground the wavy edges off both sides of a junior hacksaw blade which made a great little all-in-one tool perfect for the job. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04666Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04668Medium.jpg[/IMG] After a quick clean up, I was left with this….. good as new. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04671Medium.jpg[/IMG] I’ve found a source for some now 2ZZ bearings which until they arrive, the dynamo, and therefore the rest of the fan housing etc is on hold. The only other thing left now to complete the motor is the heater boxes….. I was all ready to install the NOS items when I heard these little voices whimpering from the bottom shelf of parts saying “Please use us, we’re fine, really – we promise to be good, we’re not too rusty and if you give us some love and attention, I know we’ll be up to the job…..” As the main exhaust was rotted through and the original heater boxes had repair pipes welded to them, I just assumed them to be junk and as I have the NOS items, I didn’t give them much thought, but I’m under no illusion as to the value of a perfect pair of NOS heater boxes, and it seems silly to fit them for the sake of it if the original items are serviceable. So I decided to strip them down and investigate their real condition – if it turns out I can use them after all, I’ll be over the moon, as it just adds to the originality and I get to keep the NOS ones for a rainy day. I wanted to see what was behind the repair pipes, so carefully cut them off just in front of the welds to see what was underneath and discovered the original pipes inside which went pretty much all the way forwards to where the silencer joins, but you can see why they were repaired. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04674Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04675Medium.jpg[/IMG] I then kept cutting the original pipes further and further back until it was back to the original thickness of pipe without any rust thinness which thankfully is well into the straight section if I decided to keep the J tubes and fabricate a correct diameter replacement tube. I then gave them a jet fuel bath to get the oily and flaky junk off. They really were very grotty…. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04679Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04672Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04673Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04680Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04678Medium.jpg[/IMG] Now for the real test – if ever you wanted evidence of the almost unbelievable powers of plusgas, after a 15 minute soak in the stuff, every single fastener which has been rusting solid for 53 years came off without a hitch. I’d bath in the stuff if it didn’t make my hair fall out…. Anyway – I was thoroughly delighted with what I found inside – almost like new, and check out the condition of the J tubes!!! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04685Medium.jpg[/IMG] At this point, I’m thinking that a straight pipe could be invisibly joined at the cut (after carefully smoothing off the rest of the repair pipe) and hey presto – original heater boxes! Failing that, I’ve got some NOS J tubes lined up just in case. For those that care, here are a couple of close ups of the mechanism if you’ve ever wondered what goes on inside… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04677Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04686Medium.jpg[/IMG] Now – this is where it all gets a bit crazy…. stick with me on this…. It would be all too easy to send them for blasting and powder coating, but that’s not in keeping with the program, so here goes…. I carried out an experiment recently to test the rust removing capabilities between Coke and vinegar by submersing a pair of old rusty body mount washers off a previous project in a small container of each fluid for a few days and seeing what came out. Whilst the Coke was pretty much ineffective, the vinegar was astonishing! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04608Medium.jpg[/IMG] You can see what’s coming next can’t you…. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04687Medium.jpg[/IMG] The looks I got at the check out at the local super market with this lot on the conveyor were hilarious! The bags of white powder aren’t what they look like, they’re sachets of citric acid powder to give the vinegar some extra kick. The vinegar took about a week to work the rust off the washers, which is fine, but to speed up the process a touch, the citric acid will just spice up the mix a little. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04688Medium.jpg[/IMG] Malt, no less! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04690Medium.jpg[/IMG] My poor bin gets some crappy jobs…. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04696Medium.jpg[/IMG] I put all the original hardware into two small plastic boxes, marked left and right and punctured a few holes in it to make sure they flood with fluid, then closed them up tight with my last tie wrap, and some PK screws to make sure I don’t loose anything. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04691Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04694Medium.jpg[/IMG] 4 gallons of vinegar and over a pound of citric acid went into the mix…. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04697Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04698Medium.jpg[/IMG] I’ll be right back after these messages…. (which might run for a day or two!) Cheers!

Posted by: TomF - 17 October 2010 01:16:42
Is everyone going to complain of the smell of vinegar when you switch the heaters on? :d

Posted by: Last Triumph - 17 October 2010 01:57:57
[quote=TomF]Is everyone going to complain of the smell of vinegar when you switch the heaters on? :d [/quote] :lol: Garage smells like a chippy! :shock: It'll be all rinsed off, don't worry. Can;t wait to see the results.

Posted by: 55Kab - 17 October 2010 08:17:11
Just fantastic. I was thinking there's so much good stuff in this thread if you didn't mind, I'd like to see Rob add a resource page where we could have each job listed (with photos) individually. That would take away the need to trawl through pages in order to find out how you did something. The tank did it for me as I've asked Evil Ben to replicate your method of cleaning it, but errrr, which page was it on:?: :lol: :wink:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 17 October 2010 10:13:10
[quote=55Kab]Just fantastic. I was thinking there's so much good stuff in this thread if you didn't mind, I'd like to see Rob add a resource page where we could have each job listed (with photos) individually. That would take away the need to trawl through pages in order to find out how you did something. The tank did it for me as I've asked Evil Ben to replicate your method of cleaning it, but errrr, which page was it on:?: :lol: :wink: [/quote] Wow, I'm flattered - didn't think I was doing anything special.... Yeah, great Idea - go for it!

Posted by: 1962bug - 17 October 2010 19:55:34
This is one of the best threads I've read, it's up there with Martin's vert thread over on Resto P.S Andy, glad I sorted your kitchen before you started this thread, would have been to nervous having seen your attention to detail! Lol! Jamie

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 17 October 2010 21:01:36
This is definitely one of my two fave VW threads of this year (the other being M.Fenner's). You've really raised the restoration stakes by finding inventive, engineering uses for culinary products. To keep up, Martin now has to find a way of using chives, Honeydew melon and aniseed in the restoration of his interior upholstery.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 17 October 2010 22:27:04
[quote=1962bug]This is one of the best threads I've read, it's up there with Martin's vert thread over on Resto P.S Andy, glad I sorted your kitchen before you started this thread, would have been to nervous having seen your attention to detail! Lol! Jamie[/quote] The pull out ninka bin door front is curved along it's length and therefore cannot shut propery - it either fits at the top, or at the bottom, but not both.... bugged me from day one. Happy now? :lol:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 17 October 2010 22:36:34
[quote=Rich Oakley]This is definitely one of my two fave VW threads of this year (the other being M.Fenner's). You've really raised the restoration stakes by finding inventive, engineering uses for culinary products. To keep up, Martin now has to find a way of using chives, Honeydew melon and aniseed in the restoration of his interior upholstery.[/quote] Martins thread is my favourite as well, although we're at the complete opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of the finished product. Martin's car will be one of, if not THE most detailed and high quality builds in the UK when it's done and I doff my cap to his efforts and attention to detail. My car, if I stick to my game plan, will hopefully be one of the most original and unmolestered Ovals in the UK, albiet with all it's patina paint, dings, dents and scratches etc. Different Volks for different folks as they say. To be even mentioned in the same sentance as Martin though is praise indeed and I feel flattered that people are so interested in my tinkerings and experimentation. I'm not a pro, just a keen amateur who values originality and doing things properly without spending my way round a problem if I can help it. I've had a thoroughly enjoyable week off work this week, (even though I did lose two days to the heat risers) but I'm back to doing 60+ hours a week from tomorrow, so please bear with me if progress slows down a little... :roll:

Posted by: 1962bug - 17 October 2010 22:50:32
[quote=Last Triumph]The pull out ninka bin door front is curved along it's length and therefore cannot shut propery - it either fits at the top, or at the bottom, but not both.... bugged me from day one. Happy now? :lol: [/quote] Stop playing with it then and get back to the oval!!:lol:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 18 October 2010 23:41:56
Anybody want to give me a clue how to remove / install dynamo brushes in a narrow slot dynamo??? The brushes are wider than the slot in the dynamo and you can't twist them 90 degrees to get them in as they are taller than the gap between the brass guide rails and the body of the dynamo... :?

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 19 October 2010 00:22:41
I just had a look at a spare generator and it looks like you have to remove the end with the brush holders ,put the brushes in and pull the brushes out while you slide it back over the comm.I have never done it but that looks the only way.Quite why that slot is too narrow for the brush is puzzling.

Posted by: Last Triumph - 19 October 2010 00:28:38
[quote=Sunroof53]I just had a look at a spare generator and it looks like you have to remove the end with the brush holders ,put the brushes in and pull the brushes out while you slide it back over the comm.I have never done it but that looks the only way.Quite why that slot is too narrow for the brush is puzzling.[/quote] Indeed - I'm glad I'm not going crazy then... But how do you get the end off????

Posted by: Last Triumph - 19 October 2010 00:40:46
Just worked it out - there was a screw hidden under all the muck that holds the entire front casting onto the dynamo body - the entire front has to come off. Now I know why they went to a wider slot! :lol:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 19 October 2010 01:14:32
I did wonder why you didnt remove that part when i saw the photo,thought maybe sniffing all those cleaning products had made you slack :wink: LT,Could you do me a small favour sometime while the engine is out and take a photo of from inside the engine bay looking at the rear valence .A detail shot of where the rubber strip channel is and above where it joins inside the engine bay.I am thinking of getting a wolf rear valence but they dont come with the inner part that attaches to the engine bay. Thanks Mike

Posted by: Last Triumph - 19 October 2010 08:20:24
[quote=Sunroof53]I did wonder why you didnt remove that part when i saw the photo,thought maybe sniffing all those cleaning products had made you slack :wink: LT,Could you do me a small favour sometime while the engine is out and take a photo of from inside the engine bay looking at the rear valence .A detail shot of where the rubber strip channel is and above where it joins inside the engine bay.I am thinking of getting a wolf rear valence but they dont come with the inner part that attaches to the engine bay. Thanks Mike[/quote] Remember - I've never done this before, so every day is a school day! :oops: I'll climb in the engine bay and take those pics tonight - although feel free to remind me in a day or so if I forget.. Just waiting for some bits n bobs to arrive in the post before I can progress, plus I'm back at work now.... :(

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 19 October 2010 21:17:20
I have just found some thin slot dynamo pics in a 58 manual i have .In theory you could change the brushes with it still in the car although the manual tells you to remove it. Probably too late with these but maybe some help for someone in the future. CTRL and + key to zoom [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/1958%20Manual%20scans/Dynamobuild3.jpg[/IMG] [center][IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/1958%20Manual%20scans/Dynamobuild4.jpg[/IMG][/center] The little screw you found ,not very obvious and easy to miss. [center][IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/1958%20Manual%20scans/Dynamobuild5.jpg[/IMG][/center] Some info on when they changed to a wide slot [center][IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/1958%20Manual%20scans/Dynamobuild2.jpg[/IMG][/center] [center][IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/1958%20Manual%20scans/Dynamobuild.jpg[/IMG][/center] Mike

Posted by: Last Triumph - 20 October 2010 00:11:37
Cheers Mike! Couple of items on tonights agenda.... Firstly - whilst I'm waiting for my new bearings and brushes to arrive for the dynamo, now that the armature is all prepared and ready, I turned my attention to the body. I spent a good while trying to find out how to remove the brushes in a narrow slot dynamo, only to find that unlike a later one where they just lift out, on an early one, the end cap has to be removed which is held in by a small screw hidden under a black fury coat. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04720Medium.jpg[/IMG] Which when removed, allows access to inspect and replace the brushes. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04722Medium.jpg[/IMG] Oh, deary, deary me.... this will never do... oh no, Sirrrreeeee! I'm aware that the coils are delicately wrapped in a sort of cloth type insulation that I didn't want to scrub at, so to clean the housing inside, I removed 95% of the dirt with a soft old tooth brush, being as carefull as possible. This actually did a very good job, but for the final clean, I gave it a quick blast with some pure alcohol spray which is totally inert and wouldn't harm anything. This was fired out of a pressurized container like an aerosol can and got rid of the last traces of dirt whilst evaporating almost instantly. Came out well. Obviously some of the insulation on the lead wires will need a little attention, but other than that, it's ready for assembly. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04726Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04728Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04730Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04731Medium.jpg[/IMG] And now for something COMPLETELY different...... Ladies and Gentlemen, please take your seats for the pilot episode of LT-TV! Before I remove the gearbox I wanted to loosen the rear hub nuts. We all know what is usually involved with this job - 6 foot long scaffold poles, broken tools, terrible language, and it needs no further description here, but as I had the Mr Torque tool ready in the wings, and as it's the sort of device where pictures don't really do it justice..... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04716Medium.jpg[/IMG] I thought I'd go one better and show exactly how it works on LT-TV! Quite amazing as this nut hadn't been off in over 30 years and possibly not at all as it was immaculate and untouched, just like the cotter pin. If the feedback is positive, I'm make more vids, if not, it was a fun experiment either way! Enjoy! [YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiefvzYKMfE[/YOUTUBE] :lol:

Posted by: 55Kab - 20 October 2010 08:26:25
[quote=Last Triumph]I thought I'd go one better and show exactly how it works on LT-TV! Quite amazing as this nut hadn't been off in over 30 years and possibly not at all as it was immaculate and untouched, just like the cotter pin. If the feedback is positive, I'm make more vids, if not, it was a fun experiment either way![/quote] Rubbish, that nut didn't look tight at all! :lol: Great stuff, love the video, definately more of those please. I did laugh at the "try not to cross thread the bolt which is my ususal party trick" comment :lol: :lol: :beer:

Posted by: 55Kab - 20 October 2010 08:29:09
[quote=Rich Oakley]Martin now has to find a way of using chives, Honeydew melon and aniseed in the restoration of his interior upholstery.[/quote] It's all in hand but I was going to use Gold, Frankincense & Myrrh! :wink:

Posted by: 55Kab - 20 October 2010 08:48:33
[quote=Last Triumph]Martin's car will be one of, if not THE most detailed and high quality builds in the UK when it's done and I doff my cap to his efforts and attention to detail. My car, if I stick to my game plan, will hopefully be one of the most original and unmolestered Ovals in the UK, albiet with all it's patina paint, dings, dents and scratches etc. Different Volks for different folks as they say. To be even mentioned in the same sentance as Martin though is praise indeed and I feel flattered that people are so interested in my tinkerings and experimentation.[/quote] Tks for the nice comments Andy, really appreciated. I'm a lover of all things early VW, in all styles, so what you've achieved with this car so far is no mean feat and the car and your efforts certainly deserve to be recognised. Hope to park along side you somewhere in the future. :wink: :beer:

Posted by: TEXAS PETE - 20 October 2010 09:35:12
I lifted the back of my bug off the floor pulling upwards on a bar when I took my rear hub nuts off. Like yours mine had never been off. (Or certainly no signs of them being off) Thanks a lot for posting. Love the info and the video! I think the torque master tools sales are going to go up. I’m going to get myself one I think :):beer:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 20 October 2010 20:21:25
[quote=55Kab]Tks for the nice comments Andy, really appreciated. I'm a lover of all things early VW, in all styles, so what you've achieved with this car so far is no mean feat and the car and your efforts certainly deserve to be recognised. Hope to park along side you somewhere in the future. :wink: :beer: [/quote] Wow.... :oops: didn't realise that was you! Would love to meet up for a beer and a chat, for sure! :beer:

Posted by: lucifar666 - 24 October 2010 10:22:20
Thumbs up for the vid Andrew, this thread just gets better and better.

Posted by: 55Kab - 24 October 2010 11:08:25
[quote=Last Triumph]Wow.... :oops: didn't realise that was you! Would love to meet up for a beer and a chat, for sure! :beer: [/quote] It's me! Looking forward to it. Anymore updates? I enjoy checking in on this thread just as much as others have told me they do on mine, so come on...more please! :wink:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 24 October 2010 21:46:18
Sorry for the lack of updates this week guys, I'm in the middle of a 12 day run without a day off work and have just worked all weekend, so haven't had much time free, and for reasons too boring to discuss here, I've had to strip out and re-wire the electrics in the garage. Whilst I was at it, as well as adding a few more wall sockets, I took the oppertunity to add a 'few' more lights. I always find it too dim in the garage at night, so thought I'd take the bull by the horns and upgrade my illumination with a stack of new high power fluorescent tubes in rows and squares all over the garage ceiling! I had no idea how bright it was going to be, but am pleased to report that my efforts were not wasted, and my tan is coming along nicely... From the garden... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04732Medium.jpg[/IMG] From the driveway... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04734Medium.jpg[/IMG] It really is as bright as it looks - my auto darkening welding helment is permanently 'on'.... Hopefully I'll have a small update and the next episode of LT-TV later on...

Posted by: TomF - 24 October 2010 23:42:28
8)

Posted by: Last Triumph - 25 October 2010 00:22:12
And the results of the acid/vinegar test are in! I waited a full week, then inspected the heater boxes that had been soaking away in the corner of my garage and I;ve got to say, I'm delighted with the results! Here they are fresh out fo the mixture... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04758Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04759Medium.jpg[/IMG] I washed them in the jet fuel to wash off any traces of acid, then gave them a quick brush up with a pan scourer which very quickly and easily brought them up like this... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04761Medium.jpg[/IMG] Amazing! I've still got to scrub the other part of the heater box, but can report that they are in exactly the same condition - I really am chuffed. I must say though that the smell that hit me in the face when I lifted the lid of the bin was horriffic - nearly knocked me out! Anyway - I thought this might make a neat little video clip, so with popcorn at the ready, tune in to the next installment from LT-TV (live from the garage) Cheers! [YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww830G-znHs[/YOUTUBE] .

Posted by: 69project - 25 October 2010 09:22:53
i wish i was this brave,normally when i dismantle things they end up staying dismantled!

Posted by: 59 Ragtop - 25 October 2010 20:44:22
Great work as always. That garage is seriously bright, thought i may have to turn my screen contrast down:lol:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 25 October 2010 23:41:36
Had another quick session in the garage tonight, but to be honest, all these 1am late nights combined with no days off from work is catching up with me, so I quit before it got too late and I made a mistake! I spent some time cleaning up the hardware for the heater boxes after their acid bath. This involved neutralising them with water, dunking them in the jet fuel to stop rust setting in, them giving them a gentle soft brass wire brush, then a dunk in some thinners to thoroughly clean them, them a spray with some WD40 just to keep them fresh until I finally fit them. They came out as well as expected - just to think, this is 53 year old hardware that normally you'd just break off with a spanner it was so crusty and horrible... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04788Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04789Medium.jpg[/IMG] I then turned my attention to the other side of the heater boxes that houses the J tube part of the exhaust. I;d not cleaned these up since removal from the acid bath, other than a dunk in the jet fuel to stop them rusting. I'd not touched them as I wanted to thoroughly inspect the ends of the exhasut part to see if they were as good as they looked. Whilst I was amazed at how good the curved section is, the ends near the bottom really had rusted thin and in places, pin holes had started to show - still, not bad for a 53 year old exhasut!!! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04791Medium.jpg[/IMG] In this next pic, you can see some of the holes in the pipe... [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04793Medium.jpg[/IMG] At this point, I decided that given that I'd saved the original heater boxes, and I'd used a genuine NOS silencer, I felt it would be a shame to re-use these pipes which really are beyond service. I'd made this decision the other night to be honest, but tonight confirmed that it was the right decision to replace the J-tubes with a nice new set of correct items! Check these babies out!!! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04796Medium.jpg[/IMG] Absolutely perfect fit and original thickness material and exhaust flange. I had to re-mortgage my house for them and I was hoping that they'd be good, and I can happily report that they are absolutely superb! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04799Medium.jpg[/IMG] I'll carefully cut off the old pipes and add them to the collection I've got of every single item I have removed from the car, then graft in the new pipes to the original heater boxes for the ultimate solution. Can;t tell you how pleased I am to be able to re-use the original heater boxes, AND all the original hardware - every single nut, bolt, washer and clip! That's all for now folks!

Posted by: 55Kab - 26 October 2010 08:58:22
You know what Andy, given the experience you've gained, as a sideline, you should seriously think about starting a Vintage VW engine restoration business. I'd happily give you a May 55 engine (when I find one :roll: ) for you to do. :wink:

Posted by: spillo491 - 26 October 2010 09:45:36
Sorry, which acid do you use to cleaning up the hardware for the heater boxes ?

Posted by: Last Triumph - 26 October 2010 13:56:10
[quote=55Kab]You know what Andy, given the experience you've gained, as a sideline, you should seriously think about starting a Vintage VW engine restoration business. I'd happily give you a May 55 engine (when I find one :roll: ) for you to do. :wink: [/quote] Lets see if mine runs first... If it does, i'd be glad to...

Posted by: zelensis61 - 26 October 2010 19:07:09
[quote=spillo491]Sorry, which acid do you use to cleaning up the hardware for the heater boxes ?[/quote] Have a look and re-read from the first page again :wink: ....and then you look at page 24 and there is your answer.8) Peter

Posted by: Last Triumph - 27 October 2010 08:50:30
[quote=spillo491]Sorry, which acid do you use to cleaning up the hardware for the heater boxes ?[/quote] Vinegar with a small amount of citric acid powder to spice things up. To be fair, you can do away with the vinegar all together and just use citric acid powder, but you'll need a fair amount of it if for a big tank which I why I used vinegar as it's about 25p per litre from Aldi!!! For small items and boxes of hardware etc, a citric acid powder / water mis would be fine, and work quicker too. Citric acid powder can be bought on the high street from Tesco pharmacy and Lloyds Chemists. I phoned round many chemists and they said they didn;t stock it , but could order it - name and address etc in case you are using for cutting drugs.... I only bought it this way as I was on a mission and wanted it there and then, so paid £1.09 for 50mg which is not cheap, but fine for a small mixtures. Amazon sell 500mg for about £7 delivered which is much more like it. As for concentration - I know of people who have mixed it very strongly at 3:1 ration (3 parts water) and it will strip it down in about 2 hours, or you could replicate the strength of vinegar and mix it at about 50:1 and wait a week or so.... I prefer the slow and steady approach as it gives you more control over the finished item and lessens the risk of leaving it in too long where the actiual component begins to suffer like it might in a very strong mix. Hope that helps?

Posted by: spillo491 - 28 October 2010 21:50:02
Wonderfull thanks !! :lol:

Posted by: Last Triumph - 28 October 2010 22:09:14
Another small milestone reached yesterday with the completion and fitment of the original heater boxes. I know I’ve got a perfect set of VW NOS items in my pension pot, but the pleasure enjoyed from saving the originals is wonderful! Before we kick off, a little safety warning – when using a wire brush attachment in a drill, don’t wear latex inspection gloves! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04800Medium.jpg[/IMG] A close one! Anyway…. Once I’d finished with the brush in the drill, the front part of the heater boxes looked like this. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04801Medium.jpg[/IMG] Next up was to coat the insides with some form of paint. I decided to use exhaust VHT paint which didn’t require baking. I can only report that after welding the J tube and flange on them when they were painted, even after glowing red hot, the paint didn’t come off, so it must be good stuff. The flash on the camera makes it look grey, but it is in fact a dark matt black. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04804Medium.jpg[/IMG] Along with the internal hardware… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04807Medium.jpg[/IMG] Which went back together a treat… [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04817Medium.jpg[/IMG] Next job was to fit the exhaust flange to the head so it was in the correct position when welded up. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04808Medium.jpg[/IMG] I then loosely fitted the J tube in the heater boxes and joined the 2 halves together for the first time. The outside is yet to be painted at this stage until after it is welded. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04815Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04809Medium.jpg[/IMG] With everything fitted to the engine and exhaust system, it was just a case of making sure the boxes were in the right position and all square, as I’d taken accurate measurements of gaps and clearances before I dismantled them. Then I made a couple of tack welds to the flange and where the pipes exit the boxes. I decided to make the welds where the pipe exits the heater boxes a little more substantial than the flimsy factory tabs which had broken off in a few places anyway. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04828Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04826Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04810Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04816Medium.jpg[/IMG] Once I’d welded the pipe in fully, I then painted the rest of the pipe inside. The large hole where the heater channel fits allowed enough access to paint the blind side of the pipe. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04821Medium.jpg[/IMG] Although the original exhaust flange was only welded on the outside for economy, I decided that whilst I had the opportunity, I’d weld the inside joint also, for strength, longevity and a belt and braces approach to sealing the join. Once I’d welded it, I ground the mating face perfectly flat to remove any distortion that the welding may have induced that might have compromised the gasket seal. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04818Medium.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04831Medium.jpg[/IMG] After a final check of the internal hardware and a grease of all the hinges, pivots and links, I assembled them for the final time and then gave them the first of 3 etch primer coats. For the record, the mechanism inside is now smooth as butter! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04822Medium.jpg[/IMG] Once this had fully dried, I gave them 3 coats of satin black which I don’t expect to endure forever, but it is as good as the factory used and will weather in nicely…. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04825Medium.jpg[/IMG] Then, using my NOS fitting kit, I fitted them up to the engine at last…. The pipe is in the VHT paint and isn’t as grey in real life – the flash is playing tricks again. [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04833Medium.jpg[/IMG] And there we are – both fitted and ready. I really am over the moon with them! [IMG]https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/last_triumph/Oval/DSC04835Medium.jpg[/IMG] Cooooool