Its all very well owning an early Volkswagen, but at the end of the day when you take it along to a non-VW vintage or classic car show in England, some folk wonder what it is doing on show alongside 'proper' vintage/classic cars. It wouldn't be the first time that I've been directed to the public car park by a marshall on my arrival to display a VW at such an event.
Our Morris Minor is much more appreciated and welcome by the British public at an English classic car show than any VW will ever be it seems. No comments of 'why spend-time and money preserving THAT German car' when displaying the Morris of course, or 'why keep a Crout car?' as I've been asked by senior citizens. Even now, so many years after the war, there are still many older folk that hold the Beetle with contempt.
Would be great to own a Beetle with an interesting UK history. There is of course the odd UK known Beetle like Tony Levy's Rattletrap, which wins hearts over with its history and past appearances on British television and in newspapers/magazines due to its incredible mileage and survival against all the odds. But how many others? I can't think of any really.
The ultimate goal is to own a Beetle from those really early VW days, 1945-1948... a VW built under British direction. Such a car would be great to take along to UK car shows, to show that the British actually saved the Beetle after the war, and maybe appease the 'anti -Hitler's car' brigade.
It is a goal that is getting less likey though, the spiraling prices are taking care of that.:(
Posted by: Rich Oakley - 26 November 2011 15:41:51
I've taken my '47 along to generic classic car shows. It attracts a bit of interest but I guess no more than if I took a run-of-the-mill split or oval.
There are a handful of interesting early cars out there with 'UK' history that I know of. I personally don't class Tony Levy's old car as one.
Posted by: Lost64 - 26 November 2011 15:52:06
In the early 1990's I took my fully restored '64 Beetle to several classic car rallies up here in Scotland. I had mixed reactions to it; some spectators loved it, and would stop by to reminisce about their own ownership experiences with a Beetle.For me that was a real highlight to my day.
Others would walk by, ignoring it.
However things became much more obvious when my car began to win it's class at these shows, the organisers were faced with other disgruntled participants saying things like "that's not a real car", "how could you let that thing win". It never deterred me however, I kept taking it along. For me it was a day out in good company, a chance to show the car, and moreover to show what I've always believed, the Beetle, and other older VW's have a rightful place in the overall classic car scene.
Without my support, and I'm sure the support of others on this website who show their cars at non-VW meetings, the British classic car scene wouldn't be nearly so varied, and some of these events might not still be ongoing.
(I have to add that I did laugh up my sleeve when my 'humble' little car beat more prestigious marques at what were then very serious events!).
Pretentious, moi?
Posted by: Robb - 26 November 2011 17:08:40
to be honest, for one reason and another i did more classic car shows last year, then vw shows......
i won best of show at 2 and runner up at another.......the judges were crawling all over it like a load of ants. So havent encountered any negative comments. :?
Posted by: RoRoVw - 26 November 2011 18:13:04
[quote=Old Blue]Its all very well owning an early Volkswagen, but at the end of the day when you take it along to a non-VW vintage or classic car show in England, some folk wonder what it is doing on show alongside 'proper' vintage/classic cars. It wouldn't be the first time that I've been directed to the public car park by a marshall on my arrival to display a VW at such an event.
Our Morris Minor is much more appreciated and welcome by the British public at an English classic car show than any VW will ever be it seems. No comments of 'why spend-time and money preserving THAT German car' when displaying the Morris of course, or 'why keep a Crout car?' as I've been asked by senior citizens. Even now, so many years after the war, there are still many older folk that hold the Beetle with contempt.
Would be great to own a Beetle with an interesting UK history. There is of course the odd UK known Beetle like Tony Levy's Rattletrap, which wins hearts over with its history and past appearances on British television and in newspapers/magazines due to its incredible mileage and survival against all the odds. But how many others? I can't think of any really.
The ultimate goal is to own a Beetle from those really early VW days, 1945-1948... a VW built under British direction. Such a car would be great to take along to UK car shows, to show that the British actually saved the Beetle after the war, and maybe appease the 'anti -Hitler's car' brigade.
It is a goal that is getting less likey though, the spiraling prices are taking care of that.:( [/quote]
You must go to some very strange car shows if that's the reaction you're getting!
I've shown my beetles at general classic car shows and never encountered the views and comments that you've received. Without exception the people who come up to chat have fond memories of beetles right from the immediate post war days, through the 50's and 60's and beyond. Nearly everyone seems to have had relatives or neighbours with one. I often see what I think of as 'modern' cars displayed at classic car shows, ie Austin Allegros, Marinas, Mercedes 190 etc etc. I think that a 50's or 60's beetle is far more a 'classic' than those cars and so far more deserving of a place in those shows.
Posted by: ianmac - 26 November 2011 18:58:04
I'd say generally people are interested, driving a early VW probably turns more heads than an MG / Morris whatever. In fact it becomes tiring sometimes answering endless questions from passing memebers of the public, i'd say on the few ocassions I drove my mothers MG no-one would even look twice.
Posted by: Mike Peckham - 26 November 2011 18:58:12
Generic Classic car shows are great, I have taken my VWs to many and if I'm honest, propbably enjoy them more than VW shows. Have shown my beetles several times in line ups with British Cars and never had a negative comment. The ubiquity of the beetle means that there are always people at shows who have memories of them that they want to share.
I think all beetles are interesting, all the more so if they have a known history. I personally don't think that Tony Levys 53 Zwitter with it largely apocryphal story is as facinating as cars that have a more "domestic" story to tell. But that's just me. :wink:
Mike :thumbup:
Posted by: 69project - 26 November 2011 21:13:45
i took my 51 to its only show appearance at the cranleigh lions classic in surrey somewhere...as i sat next to it the comments were hilarious,what an odd rear window/where has the paint gone? and the best one from a guy in a tweed jacket "he wants how much for that german thing!"
Posted by: pre67vw - 26 November 2011 22:51:12
[quote=69project] and the best one from a guy in a tweed jacket "he wants how much for that german thing!"[/quote]
Yeah sorry... That was me.
:rofl:
Posted by: AW - 27 November 2011 17:23:39
I had never had any problems at the shows i went to:d
Andy W
Posted by: beefykeefy - 27 November 2011 18:53:14
[quote=Mike Peckham]Generic Classic car shows are great, I have taken my VWs to many and if I'm honest, propbably enjoy them more than VW shows. Have shown my beetles several times in line ups with British Cars and never had a negative comment. The ubiquity of the beetle means that there are always people at shows who have memories of them that they want to share.
Mike :thumbup: [/quote]
Personally find that there are more people interested in my stock 67 at generic classic shows than at a great deal of the VW only shows, excluding Stamford Hall and the likes...
Never had any problems or negativity; car in general seems to receive universal like factor.
Posted by: Ivan - 28 November 2011 12:19:47
[quote=69project]i took my 51 to its only show appearance at the cranleigh lions classic in surrey somewhere...as i sat next to it the comments were hilarious,what an odd rear window/where has the paint gone? and the best one from a guy in a tweed jacket "he wants how much for that german thing!"[/quote]
That would have been a few miles from my house in... Cranleigh.
Posted by: rudolf hucker - 28 November 2011 13:43:03
The Beetle, was until recently, an everyday sight on our roads and the fact that the basic shape did not change greatly means that most people still view them as a reasonably modern car.
I must admit that my 72 Beetle does not get much attention but I had to fight adoring fans off yesterday while I was having a nice cup of tea in my split camper!.
Rudy
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 28 November 2011 14:08:12
[quote=rudolf hucker]...I had to fight adoring fans off yesterday while I was having a nice cup of tea in my split camper!.[/quote]
Adoring fans?:roll: They only like your camper because they think you can smuggle them over the border to Greece.
Posted by: rudolf hucker - 29 November 2011 19:53:37
I was in Milford on Sea!! A long way from Greece! I don't suppose that this sort of thing happens to Charming Queer owners? I guess that anyone would have to be passing your garage to start a conversation about your machine.(cant do smiley things):wink:
FYI
In Albania the Karmann Ghia is refered to as a charming queer. The 1303 is known as a 13...... oh dear!! Single cab pick ups are scabs.....Oh how we laughed?
My english is getting more better?....yes?
Posted by: rudolf hucker - 30 November 2011 08:58:38
Oooh er..................just realised.....I CAN do smiley things!!
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 30 November 2011 09:17:48
[quote=rudolf hucker]
In Albania the Karmann Ghia is refered to as a charming queer.[/quote]
I know things of beauty are alien to you and your fellow countrymen...wasn't it you who showed me a picture of your national pin-up Olga Chuffitch...she had tufts of hair growing from a wart on her chin!!
[quote=rudolf hucker] My english is getting more better?....yes?[/quote]
Your english is getting more better?....NO.
Posted by: AW - 30 November 2011 16:30:44
We need to see a photo of Olga Chuffitich :thumbup:
Andy w
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 30 November 2011 16:39:54
[quote=AW]We need to see a photo of Olga Chuffitich :thumbup:
Andy w [/quote]
Her early career was a shot putter...before the sex-change:
[img]https://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2172/12873626/22907122/390741558.jpg[/img]
Posted by: Old Blue - 30 November 2011 17:17:39
Those halcyon VW days!
Looking through my late father's boxes of bits I found some interesting insights from those early days of old Beetle enthusiasm in the UK.
He went to the very first VW Actions way back in the 1970s in his trusty 'Old Blue'.
Of interest is the list he'd kept of the split-windows seen there, one for each consecutive year;
1946 - LAL 23, D.Smith
1947 - JLT 420, Colbourne's Garages
1948 - 1948 VW, Jim Murray
1949 - TJJ 62, Rod Sleigh
1950 - 10 BXK, Tony Levy
1951 - SLH 16, D.Smith
1952 - MRT 308, J. Miller
Of all those, it seems that the only two still here in England are Colbourne's '47 and Tony Levy's '50 'Rattletrap', both of which did so much to bring interest to the now established hobby that we enjoy today.
Posted by: AW - 30 November 2011 18:04:13
ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG :omg: :omg: Olga
Is this the year of the first year of Vw Action if so i was there too :thumbup:
Andy W [ATTACH]6737[/Attach]
Posted by: rudolf hucker - 30 November 2011 19:27:02
I was at VW Action too in 76 and still have the badge. I was driving a 1974 Moss Green metallic Big Beetle!! I have many photos but they are in slide format. I am planning to scan them one day. In fact I have thousands of VW slides from the 'pre fashion' days and hope to share them with you all soon.
Posted by: rudolf hucker - 30 November 2011 19:31:46
Mrs Lifeinthe....... garage
I think you very rude about our national treasure.
Rudy
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 30 November 2011 19:57:46
[quote=rudolf hucker]Mrs Lifeinthe....... garage
I think you very rude about our national treasure.
Rudy[/quote]
Don't shoot the messenger Rudy...just reporting the facts...very ugly facts.
Posted by: pre67vw - 30 November 2011 22:29:49
[quote=rudolf hucker]I was at VW Action too in 76 and still have the badge.
[/quote]
I was 8... :rofl:
Posted by: rudolf hucker - 01 December 2011 10:16:59
Regarding the lovely Olga. Does no one on here like Big Bumpers???
Mr Pre67............Oh so young..what a shame that you missed the good VW times!
Rudy
Posted by: rudolf hucker - 01 December 2011 11:52:15
Olga is a Pre 67 fan...........................she has a couple of original 65s. They may be lowering soon though.
Rudy
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 01 December 2011 12:54:04
[quote=rudolf hucker]Olga is a Pre 67 fan...........................she has a couple of original 65s. They may be lowering soon though.
Rudy[/quote]
Waddya mean "lowering soon"...boy they is already SLAMMED!!
Posted by: pre67vw - 01 December 2011 13:23:20
[quote=rudolf hucker]Regarding the lovely Olga. Does no one on here like Big Bumpers???
[/quote]
I quite like big bumpers, just not on cars...
[quote=rudolf hucker]
Mr Pre67............Oh so young..what a shame that you missed the good VW times!
[/quote]
Good VW times are still here... Hessisch Oldendorf, Bad Camberg, Lavenham, the VW38, and pre67vw.com of course :thumbup:
Nostalgia is not what it used to be. :beer:
Posted by: rudolf hucker - 01 December 2011 13:38:22
Mr Pre 67
Yes there are good times (and web sites) now but you cannot compare. I can,I was there.:wink:
Posted by: pre67vw - 01 December 2011 14:04:33
[quote=rudolf hucker]Mr Pre 67
Yes there are good times (and web sites) now but you cannot compare. I can,I was there.:wink: [/quote]
Well, get your slide scanner out and prove it... :thumbup: :beer:
So what year did you first come to this country?
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 01 December 2011 14:26:21
[quote=pre67vw]So what year did you first come to this country?[/quote]
...and who's Shipping Container was it?
Posted by: AW - 01 December 2011 15:11:46
Olga Looks like a 1303 type of Girl to me :roll:
Andy w
Posted by: pre67vw - 01 December 2011 16:50:42
Anyway, to return to the original topic for a second... (sorry)
There are some people who certainly do look down on the Beetle because of it's origins, top gear for example. Also, I remember seeing a Robbie Coltrain program once where he was in the states looking through a scrap yard of old cars - he pointed at the Beetle and then spat on the ground... :rofl: But it seems to be individuals rather than everyone, you can tell that by the many positive comments people have got at classic car shows.
My father-in-law is very much into British things, I remember being slightly aprehensive about his reaction the first time I showed him around my car - it was a very pleasant surprise then when he told me that he used to have a couple of old Beetles with the small back window with a bar down the middle.. :rofl: Turns out he was in the REME :thumbup:
It's one of the reasons I love to see the REME getting involved for the Ivan Hirst show, educating people in the importance of the British in the cars survival.
There aren't many 1945-1948 Beetles around, but what about finding a later CKD Beetle made in Ireland - wouldn't that count?
Posted by: AW - 01 December 2011 23:30:38
Going off on a differant line but an good friend of mines late farther was a Second World War Tommy and had a garage after the war. He had the upmost respect for the normal German soilder and all things German but he would not have a Japanese car in the place or anything from the land of the rising sun in the house. How many look at Mercedese Benz with out realising who bankrolled them and if you took a look at what Audi built in the war people might think differantly of owning one :omg:
Andy w
Posted by: merchantrader - 02 December 2011 06:13:22
Getting into very deep territory now which I could go on about for a very long time.
However, briefly(!) this is where I am coming from:
Ignoring politics and the German connections of our Royal family I firmly believe that the majority of the ordinary British people fought and contributed in WW2 for all the right reasons.
My father fought the Japs in Burma at Kohima, survived the war but died young as a result of his experiences - would have nothing to do with any Japs.
My first wife's father was captured by the Japs at Singapore, was one of the few to escape but died young from his experiences.
My (current!) wife's father was shot by the Germans in North Africa who then machine gunned the ambulance and shot him again, he died young as a direct result. Hated Germans.
My grandmother worked in the War Office throughout WW2 interpreting German and Jap intelligence, a devout, kind Christian woman who after the war would have nothing to do with any of them.
I have harboured a lingering doubt that the Germans/Japs have put everything behind them and this was confirmed when I went to a corporate do at Watford football club some years ago. Henkel (makers of Pritt sticks and Unibond PVA glue etc) sponsored Watford and were openly boasting about having made gas for the Holocaust.
10BXK although 8 years older and 6V was a much better car than our 100E Ford Anglia.
I have accepted that we are better off in IT and finance than making cars
I decided that the year 2000 was a good time to put my prejudices behind me, be nice to them, bought my first German car and two years after that bought my first Jap car and Jap TV.
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 02 December 2011 08:37:41
If you've put your prejudices behind you perhaps you should start calling our friends from Japan...Japanese.
I'm not being politically correct...I'm pointing out the need for you to display a genuine desire to put prejudices behind you...it's a matter of respect.
Posted by: merchantrader - 02 December 2011 09:10:56
Yes point taken. In honour and respect of their name for their country I shall call them Nipponese in future or Nips for short when texting etc.
Posted by: pre67vw - 02 December 2011 09:34:59
[quote=lifeintheslowlane]
I'm not being politically correct...[/quote]
Yes you are, you should be ashamed of yourself. [-x Do you get upset when an American calls you a 'brit', or if an ozzy calls you a pom? Have you never called an American car a Yank car? All of a sudden you have a problem with someone using the abreviation Jap?
:wink:
Posted by: rudolf hucker - 02 December 2011 09:46:56
He can be a bit rude about Albanians too.
Posted by: pre67vw - 02 December 2011 09:54:47
I used to work for a company who had a Jewish director, he made it company policy that no company cars were to be German. I don't think the company has that policy any more though, it got almost impossible!
I don't think there's many people who still hold a grudge though, even those directly affected by WW2. There was a TV show in the summer, where soldiers on both sides recalled some of their memories - there was one bit where a brit was shaking hands with the German pilot who shot him down over Germany.
I think it's slipped into the realms of humour rather than any genuine hate, the fawlty towers 'don't mention the war' type thing.
Having said that, there are still a huge number of people who are very uneasy about seeing a swastika.
Posted by: pre67vw - 02 December 2011 09:58:04
[quote=rudolf hucker]He can be a bit rude about Albanians too.[/quote]
Only Albanians who have never been to Albania.
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 02 December 2011 10:45:45
[quote=pre67vw]Yes you are, you should be ashamed of yourself. [-x Do you get upset when an American calls you a 'brit', or if an ozzy calls you a pom? Have you never called an American car a Yank car? All of a sudden you have a problem with someone using the abreviation Jap?
:wink: [/quote]
Well having Japanese friends in the hobby I can tell you they do find the abbreviations offensive. Also The Samba attracts a lot more Japanese posters than Pre67 and any use of those terms are removed immediately. It's not if I find it offensive...it's if the people they are referring to find it offensive.
Having said that...you offend my friends, you offend me.
BTW...No problems with Albanians...just Rudy. To be truthful, to know Rudy is to love him.:wink:
Posted by: Old Blue - 02 December 2011 11:05:17
I seem to have opened a can of worms with this thread. My wife is of Jewish descent, hence I suppose her justified dislike of Beetles which she considers a legacy of Adolf Hitler, no Hitler, no Beetle she says.
My feeling is that as far as Beetles are concerned, the ultimate goal is to own one from before March 1948, built under British control, 'The Holy Grail' as they are often called in VW magazines. But maybe not one from before 1945, being the 'Nazi' car.
Rich posts here that displaying his 1947 Beetle at generic shows attracts no more attention than any other early Beetle. Does he clearly display the interesting English connection of this car? Stick a Union Jack somewhere on it, I would, and with the history written underneath for people to read once the flag has got their attention.
How many of these 1945-48s are in existence around the world? Never seen one for sale here since the one I regretably missed out on at Southerby's auction at Brooklands in 1999.
Posted by: pre67vw - 02 December 2011 11:06:43
[quote=lifeintheslowlane]Well having Japanese friends in the hobby I can tell you they do find the abbreviations offensive. Also The Samba attracts a lot more Japanese posters than Pre67 and any use of those terms are removed immediately. It's not if I find it offensive...it's if the people they are referring to find it offensive.
Having said that...you offend my friends, you offend me.
BTW...No problems with Albanians...just Rudy. To be truthful, to know Rudy is to love him.:wink:
[/quote]
Seriously? God help them if they're interested in motorbikes then, the term Jap bikes is all over the place - and it's in no way used as a derogatory term.
I hate political correctness, but maybe thats a prejudice.
Posted by: pre67vw - 02 December 2011 11:11:56
[quote=Old Blue]I seem to have opened a can of worms with this thread. My wife is of Jewish descent, hence I suppose her justified dislike of Beetles which she considers a legacy of Adolf Hitler, no Hitler, no Beetle she says.
[/quote]
You should buy her this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Extraordinary-Life-Josef-Ganz-Volkswagen/dp/1614122016/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322824125&sr=8-1-spell
Obviously won't change her opinion of Hitler, but it's a very interesting insite into the technology of the Beetle - and there's a very good chance that the Beetle wouldn't have existed without this man as well... :wink:
Posted by: Old Blue - 02 December 2011 11:35:28
[quote=merchantrader]Getting into very deep territory now which I could go on about for a very long time.
However, briefly(!) this is where I am coming from:
Ignoring politics and the German connections of our Royal family I firmly believe that the majority of the ordinary British people fought and contributed in WW2 for all the right reasons.
My father fought the Japs in Burma at Kohima, survived the war but died young as a result of his experiences - would have nothing to do with any Japs.
My first wife's father was captured by the Japs at Singapore, was one of the few to escape but died young from his experiences.
My (current!) wife's father was shot by the Germans in North Africa who then machine gunned the ambulance and shot him again, he died young as a direct result. Hated Germans.
My grandmother worked in the War Office throughout WW2 interpreting German and Jap intelligence, a devout, kind Christian woman who after the war would have nothing to do with any of them.
I have harboured a lingering doubt that the Germans/Japs have put everything behind them and this was confirmed when I went to a corporate do at Watford football club some years ago. Henkel (makers of Pritt sticks and Unibond PVA glue etc) sponsored Watford and were openly boasting about having made gas for the Holocaust.
10BXK although 8 years older and 6V was a much better car than our 100E Ford Anglia.
I have accepted that we are better off in IT and finance than making cars
I decided that the year 2000 was a good time to put my prejudices behind me, be nice to them, bought my first German car and two years after that bought my first Jap car and Jap TV.[/quote]
Are we living in a parallel universe here?:shock:
We too saw 10BXK (Rattletrap) locally to where we lived, Middlesex, in the early '60s. I was just a boy but enthralled by seeing this strange car which then had US Forces in Germany number plates on it. Dad had been through the war and at the time wouldn't have a look at this VW. We too had a Ford Anglia at the time 1950, same as 10 BXK, and I thought how much more modern and better the Beetle looked.
Some years later noting all the other Beetles springing up everywhere, Dad bought a Beetle, 'Old Blue' the '68 that we still have to this day. Dad went from being a little anti-German to adoring his Beetle. Going through all his Beetle bits the other day has also revealed a newspaper cutting from the 1960s which shows a group of school children being shown around Rattletrap at a road safety event! Of note is that even then it has the deluxe rear window trim not normally seen on a VW from that year.
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 02 December 2011 11:36:32
I know a few Jewish Americans who own Beetles. One whom a lot of you will know; Glenn Ring has owned his 74 Beetle from new and says he would have little trouble owning an early post-war Beetle but wouldn't have a WWII one. It's all a very personal thing.
Posted by: Old Blue - 02 December 2011 11:40:04
[quote=pre67vw]You should buy her this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Extraordinary-Life-Josef-Ganz-Volkswagen/dp/1614122016/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322824125&sr=8-1-spell
Obviously won't change her opinion of Hitler, but it's a very interesting insite into the technology of the Beetle - and there's a very good chance that the Beetle wouldn't have existed without this man as well... :wink: [/quote]
Certainly may weaken her resolve..8)
Posted by: pre67vw - 02 December 2011 11:47:38
[quote=lifeintheslowlane]I know a few Jewish Americans who own Beetles. One whom a lot of you will know; Glenn Ring has owned his 74 Beetle from new and says he would have little trouble owning an early post-war Beetle but wouldn't have a WWII one. It's all a very personal thing.[/quote]
Also, don't forget that the success of the VW in America that was largely down to the Doyle Dane Bernbach advertising campaign... ("two Jews and an Irishman")
A friend of mine owned a occupying forces built Kubelwagen Now thats an intresting thourght :?
Andy w
Posted by: merchantrader - 02 December 2011 16:04:08
[quote=Old Blue]Are we living in a parallel universe here?:shock:
We too saw 10BXK (Rattletrap) locally to where we lived, Middlesex, in the early '60s. I was just a boy but enthralled by seeing this strange car which then had US Forces in Germany number plates on it. Dad had been through the war and at the time wouldn't have a look at this VW. We too had a Ford Anglia at the time 1950, same as 10 BXK, and I thought how much more modern and better the Beetle looked.
Some years later noting all the other Beetles springing up everywhere, Dad bought a Beetle, 'Old Blue' the '68 that we still have to this day. Dad went from being a little anti-German to adoring his Beetle. Going through all his Beetle bits the other day has also revealed a newspaper cutting from the 1960s which shows a group of school children being shown around Rattletrap at a road safety event! Of note is that even then it has the deluxe rear window trim not normally seen on a VW from that year.[/quote]
Yes I think we are. Our Anglia was 1958 but still with a 1172cc side valve engine, 3 speed box, vacuum operated wipers etc. Reg 723 TMD, Colour Durham Beige, bought new from Raymond May Motors in London, had 2 recon engines and lots of decokes (despite regular use of Redex)sold late 1967. 10BXK drove better, even handled better (whether this was because Tony Levy was a better driver than my dad and/or because 10BXK had Michelin Xs and my dad insisted on buying remould cross plys I do not know)and best of all 10BXK had electric windscreen wipers.
Hate to tell you this but I have also a penchant for Morris Minors and Minis.
Posted by: merchantrader - 02 December 2011 16:13:35
[quote=lifeintheslowlane]Well having Japanese friends in the hobby I can tell you they do find the abbreviations offensive. Also The Samba attracts a lot more Japanese posters than Pre67 and any use of those terms are removed immediately. It's not if I find it offensive...it's if the people they are referring to find it offensive.
Having said that...you offend my friends, you offend me.
BTW...No problems with Albanians...just Rudy. To be truthful, to know Rudy is to love him.:wink:
[/quote]
No offence implied or intended to anyone
I am intrigued what they make of
www.japfest.co.uk, www.japshow.co.uk, www.japcarsmad.co.uk, www.fastjapcars.com, www.ultimatejapcars.co.uk, www.hampshirejapcars.co.uk etc etc.
I presume that they do not fly on the Japanese national airline ANA - All Nippon Airways.
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 02 December 2011 16:27:53
[quote=merchantrader]No offence implied or intended to anyone
I am intrigued what they make of
www.japfest.co.uk, www.japshow.co.uk, www.japcarsmad.co.uk, www.fastjapcars.com, www.ultimatejapcars.co.uk, www.hampshirejapcars.co.uk etc etc.
I presume that they do not fly on the Japanese national airline ANA - All Nippon Airways.[/quote]
I know and it's probably not my place to be offended but if you moderate forums you tend to have to think not of just the people to whom you are directly replying. With a German car forum you have to kind of have eyes in the back of your head. The 38 prototype topic on The Samba has attracted over 2 million hits and runs to nearly 200 pages...you should have seen some of the stuff removed from that one.
Try writing the derogatory word for a black person in a Samba post...even any word approaching it and see the result...it's not possible to post it.
Posted by: GKL 7 - 02 December 2011 18:34:49
Sambas full of haters,take a look at the thread about the recently unearthed Kdf 20.
I hope the guy really does have that car.Everyone over there seems to begrudge it.
Doesn't surprise me the 38 thread had to be edited.
IMHO John was right to bring the matter of referring to another nationality as you did.
I am probably the last person on here to be referred to as PC.But if you are going to come the high and mighty you may aswell get it right.
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 02 December 2011 18:48:39
[quote=GKL 7]Sambas full of haters,take a look at the thread about the recently unearthed Kdf 20.
I hope the guy really does have that car.Everyone over there seems to begrudge it.
Doesn't surprise me the 38 thread had to be edited. [/quote]
Hmmm that wasn't my impression from reading it in one go this afternoon George. Just like the 38 there are a scattering of passing gawpers who want cast iron proof from day one but as we know, it doesn't happen like that.
Once the heavyweights pitch in to the discussion the doubters will shut up if the facts bear out the early indications. I think it has the makings of another interesting thread.
The editing of the 38 topic was a mixtures of repetition, leave it as it is, Neo-Nazi Hitler lovers and other brainless idiots. When you consider it was the most widely read VW topic on The Internet you were bound to get percentage of rubbish written.
Posted by: GKL 7 - 02 December 2011 19:00:46
[quote=lifeintheslowlane]
Once the heavyweights pitch in to the discussion the doubters will shut up if the facts bear out the early indications. [/quote]
I agree totally with this comment John.Could be a fantastic thread like that of the 38.
I personally would have waited for the evidence to prove or disprove the originality of the car before i had weighed in tho'.Unlike many over there.
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 02 December 2011 20:48:16
[quote=GKL 7]
I personally would have waited for the evidence to prove or disprove the originality of the car before i had weighed in tho'.Unlike many over there.
[/quote]
Drive-by shootings are a US tradition.:wink:
Posted by: Old Blue - 03 December 2011 13:31:47
[quote=merchantrader]Yes I think we are. Our Anglia was 1958 but still with a 1172cc side valve engine, 3 speed box, vacuum operated wipers etc. Reg 723 TMD, Colour Durham Beige, bought new from Raymond May Motors in London, had 2 recon engines and lots of decokes (despite regular use of Redex)sold late 1967. 10BXK drove better, even handled better (whether this was because Tony Levy was a better driver than my dad and/or because 10BXK had Michelin Xs and my dad insisted on buying remould cross plys I do not know)and best of all 10BXK had electric windscreen wipers.
Hate to tell you this but I have also a penchant for Morris Minors and Minis.[/quote]
How on earth do you remember such detail from 50 years ago! You say your Anglia was 8 years newer than Rattletrap. I thought that the modern finned inverted rear window Super Anglia came out in 1958? 10 BXK driving better than that is an achievement. This Anglia's design is twenty years later than the Beetle's. But it is a Ford...
I cannot remember the registration of our 1950 Anglia. It was the pre-war 'upright' style, and had no direction indicators, I remember well Dad doing hand signals driving it. I do vaguely remember talking to Tony Levy back then when he came out to 10BXK Rattletrap while I was admiring it outside the shops. I can only remember that it was a 1950 car because it was the the same year as our Anglia when Tony talked to me, the wide-eyed boy, about it. He showed me the engine in the back also I recall. Our Anglia made way for a barge of a car, a 1962/3 Vauxhall Cresta that soon went rotten and was replaced with a Minor that went likewise. Then came our Old Blue a car that's never had any rot.
Posted by: Old Blue - 03 December 2011 13:39:58
[quote=GKL 7]Quack Quack Oopps!!
WRONG.:thumbdn:
[/quote]
You're singing from a different song sheet. I doubt you were born when I first saw Rattletrap. Merchantrader it seems has more detailed memories of 10BXK from even earlier. In all the years I've known the car I have not seen any notable change in its appearance. As I said earlier, the ancient paper cutting shows Rattletrap with the rear window deluxe trim as the later oval dashed split-windows. Looks as though it has the plain thicker bumpers also.
Posted by: pre67vw - 03 December 2011 14:54:32
if this is heading for another RT thread, it's going to get locked - there's more than enough been said about that car already thanks.
Posted by: GKL 7 - 03 December 2011 18:13:11
[quote=Old Blue]I doubt you were born when I first saw Rattletrap.[/quote]
27.0*.58
You tell me.
So the car was 5 years old when i was born. FACT..
We've been thru' all this before you made an appearence so like Rob said,enough.
Posted by: rudolf hucker - 04 December 2011 12:49:15
Ah! but which one has worn better? Both are legends of course.
Love Rudy
Posted by: GKL 7 - 04 December 2011 15:17:55
[quote=rudolf hucker]Ah! but which one has worn better? Both are legends of course.
Love Rudy[/quote]
Rudy
I haven't had the luxury of being rebuilt twice,once with half a new body.So on originality....
i take the title:wink:
Posted by: queenslander - 05 December 2011 11:34:16
[quote=lifeintheslowlane]Her early career was a shot putter...before the sex-change:
[img]https://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2172/12873626/22907122/390741558.jpg[/img][/quote]Now now boys, be nice,![-x
Posted by: queenslander - 05 December 2011 12:05:35
[quote=GKL 7]Rudy
I haven't had the luxury of being rebuilt twice,once with half a new body.So on originality....
i take the title:wink:
[/quote]
Just out of curiosity, what do you own?:?
Posted by: GKL 7 - 05 December 2011 17:33:39
'57,Why?
Posted by: Last Triumph - 05 December 2011 20:11:12
[quote=GKL 7]'57,Why?[/quote]
I right old shitter if ever there was one!
:rofl:
How is the old girl, my friend?
Posted by: GKL 7 - 05 December 2011 21:24:34
[quote=Last Triumph]I right old shitter if ever there was one![/quote]
Yeah! I blame the previous owner:wink:
She's doing OK Andy,suffering from lack of excercise at the moment tho'.I was going to post in the "what have you done to your car" thread.But you pretty much covered that,so i'll just have to wait until Spring to have a drive.
Have you dropped that V8 into anything yet?
Posted by: Piet - 07 December 2011 11:49:58
Yeah George, great thread of Andy, still use it as a reference today!
Posted by: Old Blue - 09 December 2011 10:09:35
[quote=GKL 7]'57,Why?[/quote]
Maybe he wonders about your credibility.
You are able to go out and buy a really decent Beetle that someone else has put all their effort into bringing it up to scratch to put straight into your garage. Last Triumph's thread on his project is absolutely commendable I must add, and you have a superb car now.
Now I've no problem with armchair enthusiasts, but you shouldn't come on here and criticise others. You seem to think that you know more about 10BXK than myself, a car that my father and I knew of since 50 years ago, when you would have been 4 years old!
Your views and preduces on the subject are well posted around here it seems. Please give it a rest.:thumbdn:
Posted by: Old Blue - 09 December 2011 10:56:23
[quote=lifeintheslowlane]I know a few Jewish Americans who own Beetles. One whom a lot of you will know; Glenn Ring has owned his 74 Beetle from new and says he would have little trouble owning an early post-war Beetle but wouldn't have a WWII one. It's all a very personal thing.[/quote]
Tony Levey was Jewish - that didn't stop his love for that little German car.
Regarding the shortening of nationality names mentioned earlier, it really is a no-no. We all know how wrong it is to abbreviate Pakistani for example.
Posted by: GKL 7 - 09 December 2011 16:12:45
[quote=Old Blue]Maybe he wonders about your credibility.
You are able to go out and buy a really decent Beetle that someone else has put all their effort into bringing it up to scratch to put straight into your garage. Last Triumph's thread on his project is absolutely commendable I must add, and you have a superb car now.
Now I've no problem with armchair enthusiasts, but you shouldn't come on here and criticise others. You seem to think that you know more about 10BXK than myself, a car that my father and I knew of since 50 years ago, when you would have been 4 years old!
Your views and preduces on the subject are well posted around here it seems. Please give it a rest.:thumbdn: [/quote]
For someone who has no idea of my background in this hobby,you seem pretty quick to express what you think maybe the case.
Try looking at what i have owned rather than what i do now.
For example that nice grey '47 you expressed a wish to own.I imported that to these shores.And great fun i had with it to.People move on,i wish you would.
The car i show preduces for is a 1953 Oval dash split,a zwitter, as it is commonly known.
Volkswagen themselves have no record of any cars being produced in 1950 on this design as a prototype.So their word is good enough for me.
Until documentary evidence is produced, in my eyes the car will never be a '50.
And while someone like yourself argues that it is,i will be here to argue that it isn't.
I have nothing against R.T it's story could have been interesting regardless.
It's just that the real truth over it's production date would have made the rest of the story of it's history a little more believable
Posted by: rudolf hucker - 09 December 2011 19:32:28
I knew Tony quite well back in the day. He was a nice chap and helped me on a number of occasions. Almost everyone in the small (old) VW world knew that he was a little confused about his cars age. Back then of course we did not have the luxury of the internet to destroy people. We just laughed it off as 'Oh well, thats just Tony being Tony'.
Posted by: GKL 7 - 09 December 2011 19:43:58
[quote=rudolf hucker]I knew Tony quite well back in the day. He was a nice chap and helped me on a number of occasions. Almost everyone in the small (old) VW world knew that he was a little confused about his cars age. Back then of course we did not have the luxury of the internet to destroy people. We just laughed it off as 'Oh well, thats just Tony being Tony'.[/quote]
I can go along with that Rudy.
I met and spoke to Tony.Seemed a nice chap.
Maybe he was "confused" over the cars production date.
What is everyone else,that comes on here insisting it's a '50,using as the reason for getting it wrong.
They just throw the word Hater at anyone who tries to point out the facts.
Posted by: Last Triumph - 09 December 2011 20:03:17
[quote=GKL 7]Yeah! I blame the previous owner:wink:
She's doing OK Andy,suffering from lack of excercise at the moment tho'.I was going to post in the "what have you done to your car" thread.But you pretty much covered that,so i'll just have to wait until Spring to have a drive.
Have you dropped that V8 into anything yet?
[/quote]
I know she's in the best of hands.
No progress on the V8 yet - few other family issues on my plate at the moment keeping me watching from the touchline.
The love's still there though.
Be happy my friend.
Posted by: Old Blue - 10 December 2011 13:27:30
[quote=GKL 7]I can go along with that Rudy.
I met and spoke to Tony.Seemed a nice chap.
Maybe he was "confused" over the cars production date.
What is everyone else,that comes on here insisting it's a '50,using as the reason for getting it wrong.
They just throw the word Hater at anyone who tries to point out the facts.
[/quote]
Its not that you are not entitled to a differing opinion on Tony's car, after all this is a discussion forum. Its just the way you keep repeatedly voicing it here. Some people just want to destroy a great VW story, yet come on here as VW enthusiasts. :?
Posted by: Old Blue - 10 December 2011 13:29:58
[quote=rudolf hucker]I knew Tony quite well back in the day. He was a nice chap and helped me on a number of occasions. Almost everyone in the small (old) VW world knew that he was a little confused about his cars age. Back then of course we did not have the luxury of the internet to destroy people. We just laughed it off as 'Oh well, thats just Tony being Tony'.[/quote]
He was a decent guy for sure. I'll always remember him as the man who took time out to show me, an excited schoolboy around his car all those years ago.
The story of the Jewish guy that loved his 'Hitler's People's Car' so much that he eventually made it into a legend, is something I'm sure that an author will eventually pick up on. It would make an interesting book. I really don't think that Mr or Ms person in the street would care that 10 BXK/Rattletrap has detailed differences to other 1950 Beetles, its black with a split rear window, so its really old as far as they're concerned, looks no different than the VW38 to them.
Posted by: rudolf hucker - 10 December 2011 16:30:13
The current owners persistance in furthering the RT nonsense is what annoys the (better informed) enthusiasts of today.
Posted by: GKL 7 - 10 December 2011 18:18:51
[quote=Old Blue]Its not that you are not entitled to a differing opinion on Tony's car, after all this is a discussion forum. Its just the way you keep repeatedly voicing it here. Some people just want to destroy a great VW story, yet come on here as VW enthusiasts. :? [/quote]
I think you're the person guilty of bringing up the subject again and again,despite having been asked by a moderator to leave the subject alone.I think his word was "Enough".
For "Some people" as you put it,the idea is not to destroy a great VW story.It's just for the TRUTH to be told.
What you choose to believe as a gullible excited schoolboy, doesn't qualify as fact.
Posted by: merchantrader - 10 December 2011 19:19:00
I have kept quiet so far as per the moderators wishes however
Depending on the exact number of active users shown on this site, I have noticed that on some days in the last week 25% believe 10BXK to be a legend, so why not let them discuss or mention the car. The forum has gone very quiet of late when 10BXK is off the agenda and some of us find it good fun.
I accept to purists it is important as to the date of manufacture but it looks like this is never going to be resolved so maybe ban this aspect of discussion. To others, like me, the VW car with the reg 10BXK is a legend for the shear amount of motoring it has done (I do not think there is any dispute that it is high mileage), mainly in the hands of one man.It does not matter to me and others how many replacement bits it has had or the extent of those replacements; to others it does and I accept their view and only look for the same in return.
Much revolves around Tony Levy, a man who is not now with us to defend or comment; I appear to be the only person on this forum who actually knew him as opposed to "met him" or "spoke to him" and the one thing I will say is whatever the age of the car if and I mean if Tony made it out to be older than it was, then £ had nothing to do with it.
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 10 December 2011 19:19:39
To nobody in particular.
This, as a dedicated vintage VW forum deals in facts. It dishes out, technical and historical facts relating to the cars we own. If a technical or historical fact is judged to be a misrepresentation here it is challenged...if not here, where?
The Internet has lately become the "font of all knowledge" but use that assumption with care as the vast majority of that information is unratified and often written to push a personal agenda. Sadly, some think "a version," if repeated often enough will become "a truth."
If anyone thinks the tabloid journalist adage "don't let facts get in the way of a good story" has a place here, there are enough people here to tell you otherwise.
Opinion is welcome...as long as it's backed-up with fact.
Posted by: 59 Ragtop - 11 December 2011 21:38:02
On a less serious note, my dad has an early copy of safer motoring where he said that when he got bored with owning said mentioned 53(sorry couldnt resist!), he'd turn it into a coffee table... Made me chuckle...
Posted by: merchantrader - 11 December 2011 22:47:13
[quote=59 Ragtop]On a less serious note, my dad has an early copy of safer motoring where he said that when he got bored with owning said mentioned 53(sorry couldnt resist!), he'd turn it into a coffee table... Made me chuckle...[/quote]
Fun! Excellent!
Posted by: Rich Oakley - 12 December 2011 23:54:41
[quote=merchantrader]I accept to purists it is important as to the date of manufacture but it looks like this is never going to be resolved so maybe ban this aspect of discussion.[/quote]
The car started life as a '53. There is no doubt about that, hence we have a resolution. Tony always used to refer to the car as his '1953 model' back in the early 1960s. There was never any mention of it being an 'experimental' prototype until a good few years after that. Like yourself, I am sure Tony's motives were not in any way profit-related, but he [i]did[/i] change his story- fact.
[quote=merchantrader]To others, like me, the VW car with the reg 10BXK is a legend for the shear amount of motoring it has done (I do not think there is any dispute that it is high mileage), mainly in the hands of one man.It does not matter to me and others how many replacement bits it has had or the extent of those replacements; to others it does and I accept their view and only look for the same in return.[/quote]
It is a legendary car, no doubt about it and I admire Tony for sticking with it and clocking-up so many miles. It's a great story. We all know that very little of the original car survives, but that's all just part of the interesting story.
I just wish certain people would stop perpetuating this myth that the car is some sort of 1950 prototype, when even by Tony's own (original) admission, it clearly isn't!
