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Standard split
13 years ago

didn't it get hit on the other side? :wink:

pre67vw wrote:



Well yes he did… but the truck looks better coming in from the left.

But (thankfully) he never became a coffee table either :lol:
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
Standard split
13 years ago
I still haven't worked out why there are no headliner grips making the headliner like that of a Standard model though:? :?:

I wonder if a Standard model body shell was cut-up to repair Rattletrap:shock:
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
Sunroof53
13 years ago
What i find very odd is that the floor they are repairing in the vw motoring feature on page 11 of this thread is not the one it has now,as the heater knob has moved behind the handbake:? .Just because the car has gone rusty doesnt mean its original .Are there any signs of the front section being welded back on at the widscreen pillars? .Like Gertie said a bare metal respray would prove it either way and protect what looks like rapid deterioration.The question i think really need to be answered is was this car a 50 or a 53 .My money is still on 53 based on the records shown in the 73 safer motoring.There is no way Tony 's eyes were bad enough to missread a 50 chassis no as a 53 that ties in with every other detail on the car.
I am however starting to think some parts of the original car are in there.

Look forward to more pics :d
Mike Peckham
13 years ago
Interesting Pics John, looks like there could well be some of the original metal works left from the original '53 bodyshell afterall. Bit of a mystery about the heater control ending up behind the handbrake though, has it had a third chassis since the big rebuild then or is that a bit of photoshop jiggerypokery? :wink:

Did you order the birth certificate in the end using the chassis number that Tony quoted in Safer Motoring in the early 70s? It would be interesting to see what that tells us about the cars origins.

Mike
July 1957 UK supplied RHD Oval. 1972 World Champion Beetle. 1978 UK supplied RHD 1303LS Cabriolet. 1973 UK supplied RHD 1303s.
Standard split
13 years ago

What i find very odd is that the floor they are repairing in the vw motoring feature on page 11 of this thread is not the one it has now,as the heater knob has moved behind the handbake:? ....

I am however starting to think some parts of the original car are in there.

Sunroof53 wrote:


Well I'm pleased with your last comment - its been an uphill struggle trying to convince people that the car is not merely an oval body with Rattletrap's old window grafted in. Makes the effort of getting the pics up worth while :beer:

The heater knob position is a mytsery to me also :?

Interesting Pics John, looks like there could well be some of the original metal works left from the original '53 bodyshell afterall. Bit of a mystery about the heater control ending up behind the handbrake though, has it had a third chassis since the big rebuild then or is that a bit of photoshop jiggerypokery? :wink:
Mike

Mike Peckham wrote:



Well, the did Rattletrap start as a '50 or '53 debate still rattles on (sorry bad pun!).

Rattletrap is celebrating the big 60, and has some friends around…
UserPostedImage

Rattletrap wrote:


I promise you that I have not tampered with the heater knob image. it really is behind the handbrake :?

This is a problem with internet images, they can be faked.

I would love to know though why there are no De-luxe body headliner grippers. This is to me the biggest mystery of all with the body. The body number checks out as 1950. I wonder if a Standard model was sacrificed for the rebuild:?: :?:

Assuming that Rattletrap ever gets to Lavenham and displayed people can the judge for themselves. Until then, many will dismiss what they see or read here :wink:

Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
55Kab
13 years ago
Tks for posting the pics John. As I guessed, the photos pose more questions than provide answer's!

The change in position of the heater control is certainly a puzzling one. I'm going to pull out all the article's from the HoH rebuild now to see if I can gleen anything further. Of course, with the use of journalistic etiguette, there's no way of knowing whether the photo of the chassis in VWM is the actual chassis restored for the car!

Ovaltine
13 years ago

Assuming that Rattletrap ever gets to Lavenham and displayed people can the judge for themselves. Until then, many will dismiss what they see or read here :wink:

Standard split wrote:


I think that we are all banking on Lavenham happening, not just Rattletrap, now that Peppercorn seems to be going into a non true vintage show like many others, unless you think 1980's VWs are vintage:? Has anyone heard any more about Lavenham :?:

Those great days of the late 70s and 80s VW shows are long gone. High prices the internet and people keeping their valuable vintage Beetles at home have changed things. I remember Tony Levy thinking that £5,000 was the sun, moon and stars when offered that for Rattletrap 30 years ago :?
The way to end a good day out with your Split is with an Ovaltine!
Lost64
13 years ago
The pictures you've posted are great John. It's becoming clear that much of the 'old' Rattletrap remains. The rippling on the roof in my opinion quantifies this. I'm no panel beater, but sometimes the only way to rectify damage in this area is to cut it out entirely, a very difficult job on a Beetle given the pressings and curvature of the roof. It could have been worse though, they could have bodged it up with filler!
Howevear I've got a couple of observations;
If Haselocks also carried restoration work to the 'original' side, it seems to have deteriorated badly considering that the car was kept in dry storage during it's time in the museum. The car must have been completely painted, surely they would have carried out rust repair, or some preventative work at least. Surely the chassis too would be showing less rust.
From memory, the pictures in VW Motoring during the rebuild showed a split window body on it's side being powdercoated on the inside. That's a very unusual thing to do to the inside of a car body. Perhaps, these pictures were not of Rattletrap, but of another car.
It would be great if you could post some pictures of the whole car as it is now.
Ovalbug
13 years ago



The heater knob position is a mytsery to me also :?




I promise you that I have not tampered with the heater knob image. it really is behind the handbrake :?


Standard split wrote:



Having read the last few posts several times I couldn't understand why the position of the heater control was causing so much discussion, until I realised that for the chassis to be of a 1950 car it should be somewhere else......is that correct?
Looking at the heater control of my Sept '53 oval in the garage yesterday it does look very similar to Rattletraps ie behind the handbrake, though the knob on Rattletrap does seem to be sitting at rather an odd angle, perhaps work has been done on the chassis in this area?

:wink:
'63 Karmann Ghia RHD
'72 1302LS Karmann Cabrio RHD
Standard split
13 years ago

Tks for posting the pics John. As I guessed, the photos pose more questions than provide answer's!

The change in position of the heater control is certainly a puzzling one. I'm going to pull out all the article's from the HoH rebuild now to see if I can gleen anything further. Of course, with the use of journalistic etiguette, there's no way of knowing whether the photo of the chassis in VWM is the actual chassis restored for the car!

55Kab wrote:


Thanks Martin, you must have a fair archive there:!:

Also, if you see any mention on how Rattletrap came to have a Standard model headliner (no grippers at all), I'd love to know :beer:
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
Standard split
13 years ago

The pictures you've posted are great John. It's becoming clear that much of the 'old' Rattletrap remains. The rippling on the roof in my opinion quantifies this. I'm no panel beater, but sometimes the only way to rectify damage in this area is to cut it out entirely, a very difficult job on a Beetle given the pressings and curvature of the roof. It could have been worse though, they could have bodged it up with filler!
Howevear I've got a couple of observations;
If Haselocks also carried restoration work to the 'original' side, it seems to have deteriorated badly considering that the car was kept in dry storage during it's time in the museum. The car must have been completely painted, surely they would have carried out rust repair, or some preventative work at least. Surely the chassis too would be showing less rust.
From memory, the pictures in VW Motoring during the rebuild showed a split window body on it's side being powdercoated on the inside. That's a very unusual thing to do to the inside of a car body. Perhaps, these pictures were not of Rattletrap, but of another car.
It would be great if you could post some pictures of the whole car as it is now.

Lost64 wrote:


Its great that they have gone to such lengths to keep as much of the old Rattletrap as possible. It would have been so easy to get a decent pre 55 oval body and swap the rear window as many suspected had been done. I'm proud of Rattletrap, rusty bits and all. He wears his battle scars like a true old warhorse 😎

As you say, there is very little in the way of body filler, which is a good thing. Haselocks preparation could not have been that good on the original side, though the rust looks worse than it is. There are no perforations through the old panels.

As for the museum, they did not take good care of Rattletrap, Mrs Levy was at odds with them about this. They were supposed to run the car every month, but didn't. They'd even mislaid the key, the fuel was totally stale, so couldn't have done. :evil:
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
Standard split
13 years ago

Having read the last few posts several times I couldn't understand why the position of the heater control was causing so much discussion, until I realised that for the chassis to be of a 1950 car it should be somewhere else......is that correct?
Looking at the heater control of my Sept '53 oval in the garage yesterday it does look very similar to Rattletraps ie behind the handbrake, though the knob on Rattletrap does seem to be sitting at rather an odd angle, perhaps work has been done on the chassis in this area?
:wink:

Ovalbug wrote:


You're right, it is at an odd angle. At one time it was believed to be in front of the handbrake (like a post '55):?


Those great days of the late 70s and 80s VW shows are long gone. High prices the internet and people keeping their valuable vintage Beetles at home have changed things. I remember Tony Levy thinking that £5,000 was the sun, moon and stars when offered that for Rattletrap 30 years ago :?

Ovaltine wrote:


An extra '0' in that figure now I think with today's price trends, but I'd never sell Rattletrap anyway. 😎
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
55Kab
13 years ago
Right then...and I hope you are ok with me posting these pics John, after pulling out 1990-1991 VW Motoring's and reading Tony Tales I'm now fairly convinced Rattletrap was reshelled.

I also now think the car was a Zwitter from new (1953) and perhaps the shell Hazelock's used was from 1950 hence the non 1953 body number.

So first off, here's a photo of the car after the accident when it was still in the States:

 Rattletrap p6.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.
55Kab
13 years ago
Posted by accident! Delete pls Rob.
55Kab
13 years ago
Then the strip down in Haselock's workshops. As you can see, the team hacksawed through the windscreen posts which 20 years ago was terminal for a Beetle and lifted the front and rear from the floorpan in 2 sections.

Also photos of the pan with the floor's cut out and with new pan's being fitted. You can clearly see the heater control next to the gear lever indicating an August 1955> pan.

Of note, Tony writes and I quote:

"After hacking away most of the damaged bodywork, the Hazelock lads simply sawed through the windscreen pillars and lifted the remainder in two large lumps (that's after they'd undone the few remaining bolts that were vaguely holding it to the floorpan, of couse).

It was at this stage, as he stood surveying what was left of Rattletrap, that Barry Haselock made The Decision: the body, he reckoned, was beyond economical repair and we'd be better off using another

So the search was on for a suitable body - it didn't have to be perfect, but capable of supplying the main shell, which could be repaired as requested, and to which doors and other components could be added if necessary"  Rattletrap p7.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.  Rattletrap p8.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.  Rattletrap p9.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.  Rattletrap p10.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.  Rattletrap p11.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.
55Kab
13 years ago
More evidence of the reshell in the following month's magazine. Tony writes:

"This latest visit was prompted by a call from Baz Haselock. 'When are you coming to collect this engine? Your car's almost finished'. Well, to me, 'almost finished' means handing over the keys and telling me to take it to the nearest MoT station but apparently to the House of Haselock, it means that Baz and his merry men had been contemplating the dismembered remains of Rattletrap's bodywork and wondering how the hell they were ever going to find enough good metal to turn into anything suitable for refitting to a repaired and repainted floorpan that's ready and waiting!

It was as this stage, apparently, that Mr H. decided to put Plan B into operation. The only sensible course of action, he decided, was to cannibalise another body on which, fortunately, he had already been given an option in case this situation arose.

So that explains how, when Peter and I arrived, they'd already managed to produce a bodyshell that looked so much more like a Beetle than Rattletrap did, last time I saw it."

Caption's to photos printed said "Meanwhile, down in the paintshop, Rattletrap's new body is acquiring coat upon coat of primes, basecoast and topcoats to eventually land up in gleaming Rattletrap Black."

Why the black paint on the inside just above the rear window? Evidence perhaps that Baz maybe used an Oval shell then welded the split window from the original Rattletrap shell into it???

 Rattletrap p12.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.  Rattletrap p13.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.
Ovaltine
13 years ago

Those great days of the late 70s and 80s VW shows are long gone. High prices the internet and people keeping their valuable vintage Beetles at home have changed things. I remember Tony Levy thinking that £5,000 was the sun, moon and stars when offered that for Rattletrap 30 years ago

Ovaltine wrote:



An extra '0' in that figure now I think with today's price trends, but I'd never sell Rattletrap anyway. 😎

Standard split wrote:


£50k :!: it does seem to need some work:shock:
The way to end a good day out with your Split is with an Ovaltine!
Ovaltine
13 years ago

Why the black paint on the inside just above the rear window? Evidence perhaps that Baz maybe used an Oval shell then welded the split window from the original Rattletrap shell into it???

55Kab wrote:


This seems to be going full circle :roll:

The way to end a good day out with your Split is with an Ovaltine!
55Kab
13 years ago
The following month we got the see the finished car.

Having in previous months said the car had received two attempts at major restoration Tony states in this article:

"the biggest major change was around 1969 or '70. After having taken Rattletrap to Wolfsburg for a thorough inspection, the orginal chassis was replaced at the Volkswagen (GB) Ltd premises at Plaistow, East London. At the request of the then Public Relations Director, Philip Stein, the then Overseas Sales Manager at Wolfsburg, Ian Mentiply, found and sent over a chassis, from somewhere in Belgium I believe, that would be suitable.

That chassis remained with the car until Baz did whatever he has done to it."

At the end of the article Tony makes reference to a letter from a Mr Mills where he suggest Rattletrap should be allowed to R.I.P. and that the reborn car be called Rattletrap II or 'Son of Rattletrap'.

Tony writes:

"Personally, I would have thought Rattletrap V or VI or 'Great Grandson of Rattletrap' might be near the truth! However, as far as I'm concerned, if it's black, got my number plate on it and I'm sitting in it, it is still my baby regardless of how many changes it's had to endure over the years. As someone kindly wrote on the Zihuatenejo dust-covered roof a year and a half ago, 'Ride On!'

That's exactly what we plan to do!

And so should you John:!:  Rattletrap p14.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.  Rattletrap p15.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.
55Kab
13 years ago
So in summary:

Was Rattletrap manufactured in 1950 or 1953?
Everything points to 1953 (we know today it's was a Zwitter and the OG chassis matches that year)

Had the original chassis been replaced?
Yes, around 1969-1970

Did Baz Haselock repair and reuse Rattletrap's OG shell?
The VW motoring article evidence strongly suggest's another shell was used

Was an Oval shell used for this?
That for me is the one remaining unanswered question.....

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