Fitting 3 point seatbelts into a 59 - advice/help?· Page 2 · International Vintage Volkswagen Forums

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Standard split
pre67vw Junkie

18 years ago

I accept that if I have a head on collision in my type 2, I may never walk again - wearing a seatbelt should hopefully mean I'm alive though.

Can't really see that having no legs is any sort of compromise – I'd rather have no Type II :wink:

The government don't generally have a habit of retrospectively applying rules for new cars to older cars, plain and simple

Wish the MOT people thought this about windscreen washers having to be on my 1930s Tatra's and 1940/50's Beetles…

If somebody fits seat belts to their ancient VW to make it safer for their kids, then why don't they replace the cable brakes, semaphores, small rear window etc, etc with something safer – maybe replace the lot with a new car :shock:

Edited by user 18 years ago | Reason: Not specified

Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378

harveypj
Stock "Wolfie" Smith

18 years ago

#22

If somebody fits seat belts to their ancient VW to make it safer for their kids, then why don't they replace the cable brakes, semaphores, small rear window etc, etc with something safer – maybe replace the lot with a new car :shock:

Standard split wrote:

Because they are already there:roll:
Cable breaks do stop a car, semaphores do indicate and you can see out of a small rear window. Having no seat belts will not stop you being thrown from the car but if you fit them they will.

Maybe they like old cars

Edited by user 18 years ago | Reason: Not specified

Stock......the new custom

Standard split
pre67vw Junkie

18 years ago

#23

Well I don't own a modern car, and don't want one. The newest in my collection is 1958.

BUT most other drivers do not recognize semaphores – they don't appear in the UK Highway Code, so someone is more likely to smash into you when you turn right than if you have flashing direction signals. I love my split rear window view – but the blind spot is huge. 😳

The seat belts in a 50 year plus car will not stop passengers being crushed when it is caved in by a 4x4:!:

Cable brakes are fine for me, but I don't think that if I had a full passenger load in the car, in an emergency that it would stop as well as a car with modern braking technology - I know it wouldn't. But well maintained cable brakes are as good as early Beetle hydraulic brakes in my experience. But I would not be happy driving around in an ancient car with 3 or 4 kids in today's traffic. If you do this you are selfishly compromising you children's safety for you own hobby/interest.

Fitting seat belts in a vintage car is a compromise – a compromise of your passengers' safety I'm afraid :wink:

harveypj
Stock "Wolfie" Smith

18 years ago

#24

I agree, having a vintage VW as a daily is probably not the safest choice and one I'd not entertain (personaly).

harveypj wrote:

I think we are genaraly on the same wave length. Yes semaphores are'nt always seen, we have blind spots, crap mirrors will probably be crushed in a crash, thus my above quote.
Compromise yes, but if one chooses to, its better than doing nothing, surly

Edited by user 18 years ago | Reason: Not specified

Stock......the new custom

jonathan.28
Regular

18 years ago

#25

It seems to me that there are two arguments developing here from standard split. To begin with, that it is wrong to modify an early volkswagen by fitting seatbelts because they are collectors items and shouldn't be modified. And now that there's no point fitting them because early volkswagens are not safe to drive around in anyway. Obviously this is a discussion, and in a discussion points develop, but this is a bit of a leap. Is there a definitive reason why seatbelts shouldn't be fitted, or is it a bit of both?
Personally I believe, however beautiful, rare and collectable vintage cars are, they are cars, and cars are to driven, otherwise I'm not sure what the point is in them still existing, and thus if you have children you wish to carry there is no choice. Secondly, I think the 4x4 argument is a little bit irrelevant. When these vintage cars were modern there were plenty of large and much less safe vehicles on the road to have collisions with, and moreover, horrific accients, whatever car you or van you are in, lead to horrific injuries.

Standard split
pre67vw Junkie

18 years ago

#26

When these vintage cars were modern there were plenty of large and much less safe vehicles on the road to have collisions with

Yes… but today we have the choice of very safe cars with strong passenger cells to carry children and babies in 😮

In a nutshell, I think seat belts ruin a classic car. Don't fit them. Carrying your family around frequently in an ancient car could ruin them, so don't do it.

A decent, safe, modern second-hand car is not very expensive :wink:

Edited by user 18 years ago | Reason: Not specified

mrsherbie
pre67vw Junkie

18 years ago

#27

4. If anyone has done this job before on a similar car any pictures would be gratefully received :)

thanks in advance,
Gareth

Grifflad wrote:

Hi, we have a Swedish 59 that has had seatbelts fitted back in the 70's or 80's and very well done indeed, I will take pics and post them up but not for over a week as the car is not here.

I do agree, it is a dilemma. Our 50's do not have them, so my 10yr old does not drive anywhere in either of those, so now my oval does not have them either, also none in the 356, so that is 4 cars she cannot go in..:( Although she has been out in the 356 as the rear seats are so low in the car, but I am not over happy about it.

I am not sure what the answer is myself either. So far we are lucky that we usually take 2 vehicles to shows, the samba (has belts) or T5 but IF we did'nt have this choice and I had just the 1 old beetle, I would consider fitting them in the oval. My daughter used to get driven everywhere in my 63 and she loved that car because of it, and I do feel that she is missing out with our older cars now that she cannot travel in any at all. No more trips to school on sunny summer mornings ( not that we get those these days :?
We only use our beetles for 1 or 2 shows each year probably because of it. But once my new daily 79 Kab is back on the road next year I forecast that I will just enjoy looking at our old cars in the garage instead. Aha! Problem solved :d :lol:

Edited by user 18 years ago | Reason: Not specified

"it'll wreck the patina you haven't worked so hard to create" - 50Karmann

Etzhold1
pre67vw Junkie

18 years ago

#28

I do not have seatbelts in my old VW's, but If I would use them as a daily driver I would do that for sure ! Do you guy's forgot the terrible crash that Traugutt had about a year ago with his Porsche:cry: , ask Christian how greatfull they are they had seatbelts in the car! Even if you're a save driver there are alway's drunk drivers:beer: :beer: and youngsters on the road who are thinking they are on a "race track" even on sunny sunday mornings !

English Eyes

GKL 7
pre67vw Junkie

18 years ago

#29

my new daily 79 Kab

mrsherbie wrote:

fb.JPG You have insufficient rights to see the content.

mrsherbie
pre67vw Junkie

18 years ago

#30

:lol:

"it'll wreck the patina you haven't worked so hard to create" - 50Karmann

GKL 7
pre67vw Junkie

18 years ago

#31

Don't worry it was considered:shock:

stu
pre67vw Junkie

17 years ago

#32

:lol:

mrsherbie wrote:

looks better :wink:

54 Gertie
pre67vw Junkie

17 years ago

#33

I personally think that this is one mod that is worth doing, if you plan to cart around kids or use it daily!:wink:

The 55 hasnt got any because her headliner is all original and she is not used much!

Where as my 63 going to be my daily in a few months and that has got front belts, just laps but they will do the trick!:d 😎

William

mrsherbie
pre67vw Junkie

17 years ago

#34

oops (I must of deleted that pic by mistake)

In the light of Mr & Mrs Grundmann's lucky escape. This also makes interesting reading, bear in mind that our 55 does almost 100mph now with no belts and smooth wide leather seats, it feels like sitting in the middle of a leather sofa driving fast! especially going around corners! I am starting to think 3 point not lap, now I have seen this man's crash photos too..

crashed my 356

"it'll wreck the patina you haven't worked so hard to create" - 50Karmann

gary c
Regular

17 years ago

#35

Seatbelts ruin a vintage car:!: Get a Euro Box, don't butcher a car that's survived 50 years. One day someone will be cursing you as they try to rid the car of the rotten things:evil:

i am pretty certain that once seat belts have been " retro " fitted to a car that was not legaly required to have them fitted (pre 1965) and has then been through an annual MOT test - once it has been noted on the computer that seatbelts are fitted they cannot then be removed at a later date ? thats what i have been told by the guy who does my MOT's ?
Gary

54 Gertie
pre67vw Junkie

17 years ago

#36

Seatbelts ruin a vintage car:!: Get a Euro Box, don't butcher a car that's survived 50 years. One day someone will be cursing you as they try to rid the car of the rotten things:evil:

gary c wrote:

That what I thought! Well, not the pre65 thing but I just assumed it applied to any era car!:wink:

William

mrsherbie
pre67vw Junkie

17 years ago

#37

I think it is a mixture of age and changing views, because I have always been 100% against retro fitting seatbelts too!! Because YES then they will always become included in the MOT from then on, BUT early Porsches are a very similar driving feel to a 50s beetle including the drum brakes! BUT they go much FASTER! And while I am not considering fitting belts to our old vw's, there is a big difference to even a small crash at 30-50mph that I might survive with head injuries, and crashing at 70+ where the odds are zero I would survive!
My life and my daughter still having a mother! is more important to me than someone in the future having to grind off some small plates and weld up a few holes.
Some things that many people find acceptable updates on beetles, I do not, for example, I would never change my cars 6V to 12V, or remove crossplies to fit radials, but many very stock and highly regarded as correct splits and ovals that I see at the stock shows in the UK each year have radials fitted. We all have different priorities so make different choices.

But I do think seatbelts are different.

It is luckily FAR easier to retrofit 3 point belts into a beetle than it is a 356! You see the problem in this link. I am not happy to fit this set up at all so I am considering a better option maybe a completely removable vintage style harness in cream to match interior. I just know that I dont want to be James Dean however cool he was!
belts in a 356

I do not care for the opinion of the 1 or 2 people who might 'frown' at the 1 or 2 shows we attend every year in the car which is otherwise completely stock/drum brakes/6v etc, and will certainly not affect me when I am in hospital after a crash or worse so will never affect my choice!

Sorry I forgot to take pics in the 59 before but will do this weekend.

Edited by user 17 years ago | Reason: Not specified

"it'll wreck the patina you haven't worked so hard to create" - 50Karmann

Hebster52
pre67vw Junkie

17 years ago

#38

It is not necessary you who are the cause of accident. Even if you drive carefully you never know when someone (housewife?) hits you in a crossing etc...

A -59 standard with seatbelts would not be that big of a deal IMO.

Not many years later they got the mounts for the seatbelts...

Here's where they were located on my former -63 standard:

The HebsterWerks.

55Kab
pre67vw Junkie

17 years ago

#39

looks better :wink:

stu wrote:

Nah, it needs chromed Fuch.:wink: :lol: Do your PS skills extend to that Anna?

55Kab
pre67vw Junkie

17 years ago

#40

Oh, and on the topic, the 55Kab will get some nifty (removable!) rear seatbelt mounts for one side of the rear seat.:wink:

Can't see why my future little vdubber shouldn't enjoy a ride in the car and be as safe as possible. Each to their own on this subject.

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