Exactly LT > it's an unknown quantity.....so as you know you've a problem, why not be a little patient and do it right first time now :?

If it was me I'd have the engine out and the heads/barrels off before doing anything else just so you got an idea of what you're really working with. Of course if you go that far, you may as well split the case and check out what's going on in there too. Doing this would not in my view change the originality of the engine or indeed the car.

PS - while the seatbelt comments were informative, glad the thread is back on topic...

I think alot of us would have been less patient than LT has been. I'm torn.

Imagine you have a massive Volkswagen obsession (well we all have that)

Coupled with a car that could be one of a handfull of genuine 50's VWs with a virgin engine, never been out, not even for a clutch!

We would all love to hear the sound of an engine designed and put together by volkswagen in their hayday.

If the engine has not been fired up since 81 what state is the engine in?

With condensation over the 19 years I would expect that there would be a fare amount of water residue in the engine, this could be correct as the photo with the rocker covers off shows some white residue.

If the engine has been turned over regularly for 19 years the barrels would hopefully stay lubricated enough so they don't get corrosion build up.

However turning the engine over by hand would not provide the oil pump with adequate oil pressure for the oil system to be fully operational for bearings barrels and last in the chain valves and rockers.

I believe that the inside of the engine is very well preserved in a film of semi liquefied waxy oil in the extremities and all parts such as barrels rockers valves. This waxy film of dried oil and water residue I believe is what is sticking the valve guides.

This film is protecting all the engine parts, so long as the engine is not pushed into action. In this scenario of firing up, even if the valves have been free'd up may dump residue of this semidried oil around the oil system resulting in residue blocking main bearings from optimum oil coverage.

I would guess that if the valves are sticking that the oil pressure relief valve is pretty sticky as it would not have moved in 19 years.

This engine has potential

Weighing everything up I would Strip the engine down totally, Get into DAZ or your washing powder of choice and a big bubbly vat of boiling water on a camping stove, have all the gleaming immaculately preserved parts put back together and to be one of the most original VW engines on earth.

PS Whatever you decide is cool by me, its just very interesting, a bit like pontificating on what the inside of titannic is like now, which I kinda like and do find fun.

Matt 🙂 🙂 :)





+



he he he

For the record, it was last driven by it's original owner in 1981, however when it was brouhg tback to the UK in 1993, it was running perfectly. The oil is still clean and the engine turns over by hand very smoothly. The oil pressure light goes out with about 10 seconds seconds cranking. It has been turned over now without plugs and a load of redex down the bores several times. Also, it is only 3 of the exhaust valves - the inles valves are all free. As one of the exhaust vales is ok, I'm of the opinion that it is only boarderline stuck. If it was a major seize up, I'd guess more would be stuck. The camera flash makes it look like there is white residue in the oil, really, there isn't - you;d have to see it with your own eyes.

I hear what you say about the valves. Others elsewhere have said they can be freed with relative ease depending on how stuck they are, which I guess will vary from motor to motor. You very well may be right, but until I absolutely have to, I'm going to try everything I can to free them off first. I'm in no rush and am more patient and determined than many.

Just small update as I've been at work today.

I removed the rocker arms, and gave a 2nd good squirt of plusgas on the exhaust valve stems. Whether this is doing anything, I don't know, but it can't do any harm.

Whilst I was waiting for it to maybe have an effect, I finished off the under-tank waxoyl job with a third and final coat. It really is very well protected now against the elements - not that it'll see many!

As a final touch, I went round filling every hole, crack and crevis I could find with a 50% thinned (with white spirit) sollution so it would run and seep more easily into the nooks and crannies. Out with the trusty syringe again!









There are a load more pics of me squirting waxoyl, all over the place but they get a bit repetitive, but you get the picture.

Anyway, back to the stuck exhaust valves... I make a soft brass drift to use against the end of the valve stems.



What I noticed is that I can;t get a straight angle with the drift on the valve and it's off by about 15-20 degrees so I'm VERY nervous about breaking something if I hit it too hard. I gave half a dozen medium taps with a hammer on the drift, but if I'm honest, nothing too medieval. How hard can I hit it without breaking something?

I pressed the inlet valves with my thumb to guage how much pressure is required to depress them (quite a lot it would seem), and tried the exhaust ones, but no joy. I'm not particulaly concerned as they've not been hit hard (yet).

So - is the offset angle going to be a problem, and how hard should I have to tap/hit them to 'crack' them free?

:)

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NICE idea with the wax injection, def. going to get some more waxoil and do my sections.

I thought it would be hard to get a straight hit on the valve stems. I would not try and hit them too hard if you can't get a straight hit on them. What you need is a spare rocker and rocker shaft, then weld a lever onto the rocker so when you bolt said rocker shaft on you can lever the valves in and hopefully out.

Saying that I would drop the engine as then you can follow standard workshop procedure :)



if you can get in there something like this?


[img]https://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/rodi_2111_210133365[/img]


or this by snap on

I'll probably be able to get a better angle without the drift. I've got a polyurethane headed hammer I can use.

For the record guys, I'm not blindly going about this with my fingers in my ears - if I have to drop the motor, I'll drop it - no issues. But I will try every means possible within reason to avoid doing so if I can help it.

It's just a case of methodically approaching it from various angles of ellimination, before that is the last resort.

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HANG ON NEWS FLASH


Brainwave.............maybe

Pushrods in rockers on!

Use rocker adjusters to push the valves in further than they are with correct gaps.

Turn engine until rocker is as far in as it will go and then crack off the locknut and with a good screwdriver wind the valve in and out a tiny bit to see if that frees it.

Basically using the engine to do the hard work as it is designed to and will not overstress any parts .

May just crack the valve to valve guide stick

mATT

Great minds and all that... :lol:

Any risk of bending the push rods?

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So long as you don't wind it until the springs are totally compressed, you should feel the force (luke) and judge. You may get a satisfying depression of the valve and hopefully it will then come up.

If you load up the drivetrain and it doesn't move, with the load on from the rocker try a tap with that soft hammer

How about if I remove the pushrod (do they just pull out?) and put a small block of hard wood, plastic or similar over the empty pushrod hole as a back stop for the bottom of the rocker to lever against instead of stressing the push rod?

Then, I can wind it as hard as I like without fear of bending the push rod?

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I was going to say, be careful not to bend the pushrods. I've bent them before with a high lift cam, but I'm guessing the stress at 6000rpm is more than you could apply by hand? Either way - I think the block of wood over the hole sounds like a better idea.

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block of wood, good idea, are the rocker screws standard thread of metric fine, if you get a long set screw instead of the rocker adjusting screw.

A good bit of hardwood

Do the push rods just pull out?

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yes pushrods do just pull out, number them and the direction with which is the end at the rockers.
I got excited there

Between looking after the kids, watching the Formula 1 and having dinner, I managed a couple of hours in the garage.

Firstly, I wanted to make a bit more progress up front so I thoroughly degreased the frame head and bottom plate then gave it the first of two coats of black waxoyl underseal. It is the only concession I'll make in terms of 'colouring' anything, firstly because it is a little more hard wearing than the standard waxoyl, and secondly because it will come straight off with white spirit in the future should I wish to detail further or re-apply, but I know it will give excellent protection.

I also fitted the NOS master cylinder after cleaning and copper slipping all the mating faces, nuts and bolts etc. Once all the hard lines are attached, I'll coat it in clear waxoyl to prevent surface oxidization.





I then tried my next idea on the stuck exhaust valves. Firstly I removed the push rod (perfectly straight for the record) and then taped together a stack of coins to act as back stop for the rocker arm to push against.

The idea is that I used the power of the adjusting screw on the rocker arm to force the valve open as I screwed it in, which is a far more controlled way than hitting it with a hammer - well, it is with my hand to eye coordination anwyay...

I set up the taped stack of coins over the empty push rod hole so with the adjustment screw wound all the way out there was hardly any clearance to make sure I got the maximum amount of push from the screw.





I then carefully screwed the adjuster in until it was at it's maximum travel. It turned in with a mild amount of effort all the way until the end - which was a big relief, as at least I know the valve(s) aren't seized solid. With it fully depressed, I soaked it in plusgas again, just in case, then wound it out again - then in again, out again, in again, out again etc - about a dozen times.

This picture shows how depressed I managed to push the valve.



At this point I removed the rocker arms to assess the valve position in the hope that it was now further out and level with the inlet valve.

It was not.

I tried to push it in with my thumb as I can just about manage with the inlet valve, but I couldn't.

Did a quick compression test to see if I'd made any difference whatsoever, but it still didn't read.

So - in conclusion from today's experiment - the valves move, they are not seized solid, but are perhaps a little stiffer than normal (not a big shock) but more importantly, they as of yet are not seating correctly enough to give any compression.

I'll sleep on this and pray for the midnight fairies to come and sort it out, but without any compression at all, there's no point even trying to fire it up in the hope that it will free itself up, as the empty cylinders simply won't fire. I'd try this if there was a little compression, but with none, I think I'd be wasting my time.

I can see what's ahead, and if that's the ONLY way forwards, and there are no further bright ideas, then so be it - it'll be fun.....?

:lol:

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Shame that the valves are not returning back, maybe weakened springs.

It will be equally interesting if you strip clean and build up the engine as it will not be as much a rebuild as there should be no worn parts, every item can be cleaned and put back so you will end up with where the engine was in 1981.

Other possibility is there is corrosion on the part of the guide exposed in the exhaust port
remember get the DAZ ready 🙂

Think its time to use this

quick question, arent you supposed to bench bleed the master cylinder before fitting?

What is that??

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I'll fill it up before fitting the hard lines, as it's still 'remote' from everything.

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